tank water problems - please help

Pete · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 31

I have a tank 5' x 2' x 2' which has been set up for about 15 yrs and
contains community fish and is illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old.

I used to replace about 1/3 of the water and clean the filter every
couple of months and all seemed fine.

For about the last 14yrs everything has been fine then about a year
ago I started getting a dark blue/green algae like fur (about 1" long)
growing in clumps on the glass and covering the plant leaves.

I increased the frquency of the water changes gradually (assuming 'old
tank syndrome') and I am currently changing about 1/3 of the water
every week, but still the algae grows and the tank generally looks
under the weather.
For the last few weeks I have not used the 3rd triton tube.

I have undergravel filters fitted with small powerheads but after 15
yrs, they don't work efficiently any more.

2 Airstones pumping a lot of air.

Eheim 2217 Classic (1000 litres/hr) external filter which has coarse
substrate at the bottom, coarse filter pad, smooth substrate, filter
wool and finally a bag of carbon on top. I now clean the substrate in
tank water every 2/3 weeks and replace the filter wool and carbon at
the same time.

The tank was well planted, so much so that I had to remove handfulls
of plants every couple of weeks to keep it under control.
Excessive plant growth no longer occurs, probably because the algae
covers most of the leaves.

Many plants died and I restocked just before Christmas, but many of
the new plants have subsequently died.

I live in a hard/very hard water area.
Water testing has shown the following-

on 3 May
Water temp - 79F
pH - 6.4
KH=TAC=Carbonate hardness - 3 degrees
GH=DT=TH - >21 degrees
NO2 mg/l - 10
NO3 mg/l - >500

After this test I changed 1/3 of the water and cleaned the substrate
in the filter and replaced the carbon.

on 15 May
Water temp - 79F
pH - 6.4
KH=TAC=Carbonate hardness - 3 degrees
GH=DT=TH - >21 degrees
NO2 mg/l - 1
NO3 mg/l - >500

Any help to get my tank back to good health will be much appreciated.

Many thanks
Pete

Archived from group: alt>aquaria>tropical>fish>hobbist

Koi-Lo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 199

*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups.*

"Pete" wrote in message @4ax.com...
>I have a tank 5' x 2' x 2' which has been set up for about 15 yrs and
> contains community fish and is illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
> tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
> middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old.
=====================
Ask this on rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc as few people frequent this NG.

Koi-Lo....
Aquariums since 1952. Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Disclaimer: Trolls. They can't get me fired. I'm retired.
They can't get my husband fired. He owns the Company.
They can't get me disfellowshipped because I left the Org.
I do not post from Google, Earthlink, Newsguy or Verizon.
Rude or obscene messages are not mine .
All messages under the name Carol or Randy Gulley are forgeries.
The person impersonating me is Roy Hauer of Hope Hull AL.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~{@ ~~~~~<~~{@ ~~~<~~{@

Pete · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 31

will do - thanks for the tip

Pete

On Tue, 16 May 2006 09:47:19 -0500, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:

>*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups.*
>
>"Pete" wrote in message
>@4ax.com...
>>I have a tank 5' x 2' x 2' which has been set up for about 15 yrs and
>> contains community fish and is illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
>> tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
>> middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old.
>=====================
>Ask this on rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc as few people frequent this NG.
>
>Koi-Lo....
>Aquariums since 1952. Frugal ponding since 1995.
>My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58
>Disclaimer: Trolls. They can't get me fired. I'm retired.
>They can't get my husband fired. He owns the Company.
>They can't get me disfellowshipped because I left the Org.
>I do not post from Google, Earthlink, Newsguy or Verizon.
>Rude or obscene messages are not mine .
>All messages under the name Carol or Randy Gulley are forgeries.
>The person impersonating me is Roy Hauer of Hope Hull AL.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~{@ ~~~~~<~~{@ ~~~<~~{@

Koi-Lo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 199

*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups.*

"PatC" wrote in message $0$17542$61c65585@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
>
> Pete
> Funny thing about that group that Koi-Lo recommended.
> There does not seem to be much info regarding Tropical fish - instead it
> all
> seems to be cross talking..so better stay with this group I think, but
> then
> again I could be wrong - it wouldn't be the first time that I've been
> wrong!
> Pat
=======================
We have a troll posting with many NYMs constantly attacking other posters.
He also uses my NYM Koi-Lo to post rude and obscene messages. He posts
through Earthlink.net in case you know how to read headers.

Koi-Lo....
Aquariums since 1952. Frugal ponding since 1995.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Disclaimer: Trolls. They can't get me fired. I'm retired.
They can't get my husband fired. He owns the Company.
I do not post from Google, Earthlink, Newsguy or Verizon.
Rude or obscene messages are not mine .
The person impersonating me is ~Roy ~ Hauer of AL.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~{@ ~~~~~<~~{@ ~~~<~~{@

Frank · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 71

Pete wrote,
> illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
>tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
>middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old. ...

Hardly enough light even for low light plants, espically since your
tank is 2' deep. You need 2 watts per gal. for low light plants - your
tank, 2' x 2' x 5' = 150 gals., needs over twice the amount of light
for low light plants. 4 watts per gal. for a well planted tank, but
then you would need CO2 also.

>I used to replace about 1/3 of the water and clean the filter every
>couple of months and all seemed fine. ....

You need to change at least 20% of the water *weekly* in a well planted
tank, twice that much in a non-planted or low light tank.

> I started getting a dark blue/green algae like fur (about 1" long)
>growing in clumps on the glass and covering the plant leaves...

Uneaten foods and fish waste slowly decompose, dissolve and produce
many organic and inorganic compounds. Just because your water has been
clear, it doesn't necessary mean that the water is good. As the uneaten
foods and waste 'break down' they become what is called DOCs (dissolved
organic compounds), or organic pollution. These DOCs are just pumped
through the filters media and back into the tank as an endless supply
of plant nutrients. A build-up of these DOCs not only feed the algae,
but create conditions that encourage disease, parasites, and
opportunistic bacteria. Water changes remove DOCs!

>I am currently changing about 1/3 of the water
>every week....

Unless fish are used to large later changes, you should never change
over 20% at a time. If you need a lot of water changed, it's far better
to change 20% twice a day (few hours apart), to 20% daily water
changes. A large water change changes, or lowers TDS (total dissolved
solids) too quickly which changes the tanks osmotic pressure too
quickly. This can/will cause gill damage and can/will even kill fish.

>I have undergravel filters fitted with small powerheads but after 15
>yrs, they don't work efficiently any more....

Undergravel filters pull all the waste down into the gravel. The gravel
becomes the filter media. Without weekly maintenance (gravel vacs and
cleaning out from under the filter plates), the gravel (media) becomes
the sorce of organic pollution. I would pull the undergravel filter
plates out of the tank and get a twin bio-wheel filter to replace them.

>Eheim 2217 Classic (1000 litres/hr) external filter ...

High performance filters in aquaria are not necessarily the best
filters for the tank. As you pointed out, that baby pushs 1000
litres/hr. through the filters media. Break-down time of DOCs is the
most time consuming, so instead of being removed, the DOCs are pumped
back into the tank. Besides that, any solids in the tank would quickly
be picked up (because of the flow rate) and traped in the filters
media. Because of the high flow rate (1000 litres/hr.) these solids
quickly dissolve (DOCs) and are pumped back into the tank. Bio-wheel
filters remove all three forms of aquaria pollution; dissolved
compounds such as ammonia/nitrites, inorganic pollutants - those DOCs,
and solid particulate waste.

>The tank was well planted, so much so that I had to remove handfulls
>of plants every couple of weeks to keep it under control....

That I haven't figured out - yet. 120 watts of light in a 2' deep tank
- the plants shouldn't be doing so good!

>Excessive plant growth no longer occurs, probably because the algae
>covers most of the leaves....
>Many plants died and I restocked just before Christmas, but many of
>the new plants have subsequently died. ...

Need more light and CO2.

>NO2 mg/l - 10

nitrite 10, or 1.0 ??? @ 10, all the fish would be dead! ... Better
stick with this news group untill they quite trashing the other fish
news groups........................... Frank

PatC · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 30

Hi
I am no expert but it seems that you are cleaning the Eheim filter much too
often. These filters are designed to use the flora in the tank to
successfully clear the water, by cleaning it too often you may be doing more
harm than good.
I've been cleaning mine after 3 -4 months operation, this depends on your
tank size & the amount of ish kept in the tank, but never should it be
cleaned as often as you suggest regardless of the fish content.
Pat

"Pete" wrote in message@4ax.com...
> I have a tank 5' x 2' x 2' which has been set up for about 15 yrs and
> contains community fish and is illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
> tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
> middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old.
>
> I used to replace about 1/3 of the water and clean the filter every
> couple of months and all seemed fine.
>
> For about the last 14yrs everything has been fine then about a year
> ago I started getting a dark blue/green algae like fur (about 1" long)
> growing in clumps on the glass and covering the plant leaves.
>
> I increased the frquency of the water changes gradually (assuming 'old
> tank syndrome') and I am currently changing about 1/3 of the water
> every week, but still the algae grows and the tank generally looks
> under the weather.
> For the last few weeks I have not used the 3rd triton tube.
>
> I have undergravel filters fitted with small powerheads but after 15
> yrs, they don't work efficiently any more.
>
> 2 Airstones pumping a lot of air.
>
> Eheim 2217 Classic (1000 litres/hr) external filter which has coarse
> substrate at the bottom, coarse filter pad, smooth substrate, filter
> wool and finally a bag of carbon on top. I now clean the substrate in
> tank water every 2/3 weeks and replace the filter wool and carbon at
> the same time.
>
> The tank was well planted, so much so that I had to remove handfulls
> of plants every couple of weeks to keep it under control.
> Excessive plant growth no longer occurs, probably because the algae
> covers most of the leaves.
>
> Many plants died and I restocked just before Christmas, but many of
> the new plants have subsequently died.
>
> I live in a hard/very hard water area.
> Water testing has shown the following-
>
> on 3 May
> Water temp - 79F
> pH - 6.4
> KH=TAC=Carbonate hardness - 3 degrees
> GH=DT=TH - >21 degrees
> NO2 mg/l - 10
> NO3 mg/l - >500
>
> After this test I changed 1/3 of the water and cleaned the substrate
> in the filter and replaced the carbon.
>
> on 15 May
> Water temp - 79F
> pH - 6.4
> KH=TAC=Carbonate hardness - 3 degrees
> GH=DT=TH - >21 degrees
> NO2 mg/l - 1
> NO3 mg/l - >500
>
> Any help to get my tank back to good health will be much appreciated.
>
> Many thanks
> Pete
>
>

PatC · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 30

Pete
Funny thing about that group that Koi-Lo recommended.
There does not seem to be much info regarding Tropical fish - instead it all
seems to be cross talking..so better stay with this group I think, but then
again I could be wrong - it wouldn't be the first time that I've been wrong!
Pat

"Pete" wrote in message@4ax.com...
> will do - thanks for the tip
>
> Pete
>
> On Tue, 16 May 2006 09:47:19 -0500, "Koi-Lo"
> wrote:
>
> >*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups.*
> >
> >"Pete" wrote in message
> >@4ax.com...
> >>I have a tank 5' x 2' x 2' which has been set up for about 15 yrs and
> >> contains community fish and is illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
> >> tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
> >> middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old.
> >=====================
> >Ask this on rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc as few people frequent this NG.
> >
> >Koi-Lo....
> >Aquariums since 1952. Frugal ponding since 1995.
> >My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58
> >Disclaimer: Trolls. They can't get me fired. I'm retired.
> >They can't get my husband fired. He owns the Company.
> >They can't get me disfellowshipped because I left the Org.
> >I do not post from Google, Earthlink, Newsguy or Verizon.
> >Rude or obscene messages are not mine .
> >All messages under the name Carol or Randy Gulley are forgeries.
> >The person impersonating me is Roy Hauer of Hope Hull AL.
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~{@ ~~~~~<~~{@ ~~~<~~{@
>

Koi Lo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

Yea if CArol can not find a suitable answer by searching the intenret
for answers by others she passes it on to another group. Koi lo is the
ho of the USENET groups and causes problems where ever she goes...

On Tue, 16 May 2006 09:47:19 -0500, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:
>>*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups.*
>>
>>"Pete" wrote in message
>>@4ax.com...
>>>I have a tank 5' x 2' x 2' which has been set up for about 15 yrs and
>>> contains community fish and is illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
>>> tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
>>> middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old.
>>=====================
>>Ask this on rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc as few people frequent this NG.
>>
>>Koi-Lo....
>>Aquariums since 1952. Frugal ponding since 1995.
>>My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58
>>Disclaimer: Trolls. They can't get me fired. I'm retired.
>>They can't get my husband fired. He owns the Company.
>>They can't get me disfellowshipped because I left the Org.
>>I do not post from Google, Earthlink, Newsguy or Verizon.
>>Rude or obscene messages are not mine .
>>All messages under the name Carol or Randy Gulley are forgeries.
>>The person impersonating me is Roy Hauer of Hope Hull AL.
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<~{@ ~~~~~<~~{@ ~~~<~~{@

==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
"The original frugal ponder.."Since my statements are
given freely, take em or leave em, I am entitled to
my opinion none the less. My opinion and $1 is still
only worth $1.....but I am entitled to "MY" opinion..
Carol Gulley, Mt. Juliet, TN. aka Koi Lo the queen of ponds.
~~~~ } ~~~~~~ } ~~~~~~~ }

Pete · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 31

Thanks Frank - makes a lot of sense.

I've not heard of a 'twin bio-wheel' filter before. I'll have a search
via google,but could you recommend one?

Thanks again
Pete

On 17 May 2006 19:09:35 -0700, "Frank"
wrote:

>Pete wrote,
>> illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
>>tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
>>middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old. ...
>
>Hardly enough light even for low light plants, espically since your
>tank is 2' deep. You need 2 watts per gal. for low light plants - your
>tank, 2' x 2' x 5' = 150 gals., needs over twice the amount of light
>for low light plants. 4 watts per gal. for a well planted tank, but
>then you would need CO2 also.
>
>>I used to replace about 1/3 of the water and clean the filter every
>>couple of months and all seemed fine. ....
>
>You need to change at least 20% of the water *weekly* in a well planted
>tank, twice that much in a non-planted or low light tank.
>
>> I started getting a dark blue/green algae like fur (about 1" long)
>>growing in clumps on the glass and covering the plant leaves...
>
>Uneaten foods and fish waste slowly decompose, dissolve and produce
>many organic and inorganic compounds. Just because your water has been
>clear, it doesn't necessary mean that the water is good. As the uneaten
>foods and waste 'break down' they become what is called DOCs (dissolved
>organic compounds), or organic pollution. These DOCs are just pumped
>through the filters media and back into the tank as an endless supply
>of plant nutrients. A build-up of these DOCs not only feed the algae,
>but create conditions that encourage disease, parasites, and
>opportunistic bacteria. Water changes remove DOCs!
>
>>I am currently changing about 1/3 of the water
>>every week....
>
>Unless fish are used to large later changes, you should never change
>over 20% at a time. If you need a lot of water changed, it's far better
>to change 20% twice a day (few hours apart), to 20% daily water
>changes. A large water change changes, or lowers TDS (total dissolved
>solids) too quickly which changes the tanks osmotic pressure too
>quickly. This can/will cause gill damage and can/will even kill fish.
>
>>I have undergravel filters fitted with small powerheads but after 15
>>yrs, they don't work efficiently any more....
>
>Undergravel filters pull all the waste down into the gravel. The gravel
>becomes the filter media. Without weekly maintenance (gravel vacs and
>cleaning out from under the filter plates), the gravel (media) becomes
>the sorce of organic pollution. I would pull the undergravel filter
>plates out of the tank and get a twin bio-wheel filter to replace them.
>
>
>>Eheim 2217 Classic (1000 litres/hr) external filter ...
>
>High performance filters in aquaria are not necessarily the best
>filters for the tank. As you pointed out, that baby pushs 1000
>litres/hr. through the filters media. Break-down time of DOCs is the
>most time consuming, so instead of being removed, the DOCs are pumped
>back into the tank. Besides that, any solids in the tank would quickly
>be picked up (because of the flow rate) and traped in the filters
>media. Because of the high flow rate (1000 litres/hr.) these solids
>quickly dissolve (DOCs) and are pumped back into the tank. Bio-wheel
>filters remove all three forms of aquaria pollution; dissolved
>compounds such as ammonia/nitrites, inorganic pollutants - those DOCs,
>and solid particulate waste.
>
>>The tank was well planted, so much so that I had to remove handfulls
>>of plants every couple of weeks to keep it under control....
>
>That I haven't figured out - yet. 120 watts of light in a 2' deep tank
>- the plants shouldn't be doing so good!
>
>>Excessive plant growth no longer occurs, probably because the algae
>>covers most of the leaves....
>>Many plants died and I restocked just before Christmas, but many of
>>the new plants have subsequently died. ...
>
>Need more light and CO2.
>
>>NO2 mg/l - 10
>
>nitrite 10, or 1.0 ??? @ 10, all the fish would be dead! ... Better
>stick with this news group untill they quite trashing the other fish
>news groups........................... Frank

Frank · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 71

Pete wrote,
>Eheim 2329 Wet & Dry Breathing External Thermo Filter ....

Don't think you could beat it for a tank of larger fish, over kill
otherwise. If it were my money, I would go for eather Marineland's or
Penguin's 330. For the kind of money that Eheim would cost, you could
get two of the others and have change in your pocket. Besides that, I
beleave your tank would be filtered better............... Frank

Pete · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 31

I came across this which I think will do the job.
Unless I'm advised otherwise, I'll order one on monday.

Eheim 2329 Wet & Dry Breathing External Thermo Filter

Thanks
Pete

On 17 May 2006 19:09:35 -0700, "Frank"
wrote:

>Pete wrote,
>> illuminated by 3 x 40W triton tubes (2
>>tubes on for 10hrs/day and the 3rd comes on for 3 hrs/day in the
>>middle of the 10hr cycle). The tubes are less than 1yr old. ...
>
>Hardly enough light even for low light plants, espically since your
>tank is 2' deep. You need 2 watts per gal. for low light plants - your
>tank, 2' x 2' x 5' = 150 gals., needs over twice the amount of light
>for low light plants. 4 watts per gal. for a well planted tank, but
>then you would need CO2 also.
>
>>I used to replace about 1/3 of the water and clean the filter every
>>couple of months and all seemed fine. ....
>
>You need to change at least 20% of the water *weekly* in a well planted
>tank, twice that much in a non-planted or low light tank.
>
>> I started getting a dark blue/green algae like fur (about 1" long)
>>growing in clumps on the glass and covering the plant leaves...
>
>Uneaten foods and fish waste slowly decompose, dissolve and produce
>many organic and inorganic compounds. Just because your water has been
>clear, it doesn't necessary mean that the water is good. As the uneaten
>foods and waste 'break down' they become what is called DOCs (dissolved
>organic compounds), or organic pollution. These DOCs are just pumped
>through the filters media and back into the tank as an endless supply
>of plant nutrients. A build-up of these DOCs not only feed the algae,
>but create conditions that encourage disease, parasites, and
>opportunistic bacteria. Water changes remove DOCs!
>
>>I am currently changing about 1/3 of the water
>>every week....
>
>Unless fish are used to large later changes, you should never change
>over 20% at a time. If you need a lot of water changed, it's far better
>to change 20% twice a day (few hours apart), to 20% daily water
>changes. A large water change changes, or lowers TDS (total dissolved
>solids) too quickly which changes the tanks osmotic pressure too
>quickly. This can/will cause gill damage and can/will even kill fish.
>
>>I have undergravel filters fitted with small powerheads but after 15
>>yrs, they don't work efficiently any more....
>
>Undergravel filters pull all the waste down into the gravel. The gravel
>becomes the filter media. Without weekly maintenance (gravel vacs and
>cleaning out from under the filter plates), the gravel (media) becomes
>the sorce of organic pollution. I would pull the undergravel filter
>plates out of the tank and get a twin bio-wheel filter to replace them.
>
>
>>Eheim 2217 Classic (1000 litres/hr) external filter ...
>
>High performance filters in aquaria are not necessarily the best
>filters for the tank. As you pointed out, that baby pushs 1000
>litres/hr. through the filters media. Break-down time of DOCs is the
>most time consuming, so instead of being removed, the DOCs are pumped
>back into the tank. Besides that, any solids in the tank would quickly
>be picked up (because of the flow rate) and traped in the filters
>media. Because of the high flow rate (1000 litres/hr.) these solids
>quickly dissolve (DOCs) and are pumped back into the tank. Bio-wheel
>filters remove all three forms of aquaria pollution; dissolved
>compounds such as ammonia/nitrites, inorganic pollutants - those DOCs,
>and solid particulate waste.
>
>>The tank was well planted, so much so that I had to remove handfulls
>>of plants every couple of weeks to keep it under control....
>
>That I haven't figured out - yet. 120 watts of light in a 2' deep tank
>- the plants shouldn't be doing so good!
>
>>Excessive plant growth no longer occurs, probably because the algae
>>covers most of the leaves....
>>Many plants died and I restocked just before Christmas, but many of
>>the new plants have subsequently died. ...
>
>Need more light and CO2.
>
>>NO2 mg/l - 10
>
>nitrite 10, or 1.0 ??? @ 10, all the fish would be dead! ... Better
>stick with this news group untill they quite trashing the other fish
>news groups........................... Frank