tank not cycling

Brad Irwin · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 14

I have had my tank set up with live sand a 5 damsels for about 4
months now and it still isnt done cycling. its a 72 gal bowfront tank
with wet dry filter. the tank used to be a FW tank then sat empty in
the garage for anout 2 months when I filled it and set it up for SW.
At one time i saw the nitrites go up then go back down again but now
Im still showing ammonia in small amounts and no nitrites or nitrates.
Ive been topping off with RO water for the last 2 months. I need help

Brad

Archived from group: rec>aquaria>marine>misc

Mike · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

bradley.irwin@eglin.af.mil (Brad Irwin) wrote in @posting.google.com:

> I have had my tank set up with live sand a 5 damsels for about 4
> months now and it still isnt done cycling. its a 72 gal bowfront tank
> with wet dry filter. the tank used to be a FW tank then sat empty in
> the garage for anout 2 months when I filled it and set it up for SW.
> At one time i saw the nitrites go up then go back down again but now
> Im still showing ammonia in small amounts and no nitrites or nitrates.
> Ive been topping off with RO water for the last 2 months. I need help
>
> Brad
>

Brad,

That's definitely not right.
What kind of substrate do you have? Is/was it cleaned before you restarted
this tank? Did anything die that was in the tank that could be
contributing to this ammonia? When you say you're showing small amounts,
how much? What test kit are you using? Have you verified these ammonia
results with someone elses kit (local pet shop for example), perhaps your
kit is bad.

Also, IMO, wet/dry's are kind of old school and not used much anymore.
They eventually become giant nitrate factories. If you've got bio-balls in
there, I'd recommend removing them.

Mike

Brad Irwin · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 14

The substrate is new. I took the gravel out and put in live sand. NO
nothing died in the tank it was a healthy running tank with african
cichlids in it. I do have bio balls in the wet dry and they are from
the old system but i figgured that would be fine. I dont see any
problems re using bio balls is there? I dont have any live rock int
the tank so I dont want to remove the bio balls because then I will
have nowhere for bacteria to grow.

Mike wrote in message news:...
> bradley.irwin@eglin.af.mil (Brad Irwin) wrote in
> @posting.google.com:
>
> > I have had my tank set up with live sand a 5 damsels for about 4
> > months now and it still isnt done cycling. its a 72 gal bowfront tank
> > with wet dry filter. the tank used to be a FW tank then sat empty in
> > the garage for anout 2 months when I filled it and set it up for SW.
> > At one time i saw the nitrites go up then go back down again but now
> > Im still showing ammonia in small amounts and no nitrites or nitrates.
> > Ive been topping off with RO water for the last 2 months. I need help
> >
> > Brad
> >
>
> Brad,
>
> That's definitely not right.
> What kind of substrate do you have? Is/was it cleaned before you restarted
> this tank? Did anything die that was in the tank that could be
> contributing to this ammonia? When you say you're showing small amounts,
> how much? What test kit are you using? Have you verified these ammonia
> results with someone elses kit (local pet shop for example), perhaps your
> kit is bad.
>
> Also, IMO, wet/dry's are kind of old school and not used much anymore.
> They eventually become giant nitrate factories. If you've got bio-balls in
> there, I'd recommend removing them.
>
> Mike

Dragon Slayer · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 440

correct me if I'm wrong, but most African cichlids are kept in tanks with
much less salinity then NSW and this will cause live rock to die off and
cause the water quality to become questionable. and once again from memory
here, the cichlids require pristine quality water.

just a thought.
kc

"Mike" wrote in message$Ab2.55042@sccrnsc01...
> bradley.irwin@eglin.af.mil (Brad Irwin) wrote in
> @posting.google.com:
>
> > The substrate is new. I took the gravel out and put in live sand. NO
> > nothing died in the tank it was a healthy running tank with african
> > cichlids in it. I do have bio balls in the wet dry and they are from
> > the old system but i figgured that would be fine. I dont see any
> > problems re using bio balls is there? I dont have any live rock int
> > the tank so I dont want to remove the bio balls because then I will
> > have nowhere for bacteria to grow.
> >
> >
> >
>
> So you have no rock in the tank? Just sand? Are you planning on adding
> rock?
> Wet/dry's and bio-balls are a matter of opinion, I don't like them and
> many people no longer use them. As I said before, they eventually
> become nitrate factories, that's a known fact. Adding some live rock to
> your system would make your ecosystem complete and not have any need for
> the bio-balls. Depending on how much live sand you have in there, you
> could do fine with just that, but I wouldn't bank on it. The sand bed
> can maintain a certain amount of bacteria, but not enough to maintain
> the entire system, hence the need for some rock.
>
> But back to the original point, I don't know why your tank isn't
> cyclying. Honestly, I don't know if it has anything to do with the bio-
> balls because I haven't used a wet/dry in 10 years so I don't know how
> those influence the cycling process. You might check some of the
> popular bulletin boards for more advice...reefcentral.com or reefs.org.
> Good luck.
>
> Mike
>
>

Mike · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

bradley.irwin@eglin.af.mil (Brad Irwin) wrote in@posting.google.com:

> The substrate is new. I took the gravel out and put in live sand. NO
> nothing died in the tank it was a healthy running tank with african
> cichlids in it. I do have bio balls in the wet dry and they are from
> the old system but i figgured that would be fine. I dont see any
> problems re using bio balls is there? I dont have any live rock int
> the tank so I dont want to remove the bio balls because then I will
> have nowhere for bacteria to grow.
>
>
>

So you have no rock in the tank? Just sand? Are you planning on adding
rock?
Wet/dry's and bio-balls are a matter of opinion, I don't like them and
many people no longer use them. As I said before, they eventually
become nitrate factories, that's a known fact. Adding some live rock to
your system would make your ecosystem complete and not have any need for
the bio-balls. Depending on how much live sand you have in there, you
could do fine with just that, but I wouldn't bank on it. The sand bed
can maintain a certain amount of bacteria, but not enough to maintain
the entire system, hence the need for some rock.

But back to the original point, I don't know why your tank isn't
cyclying. Honestly, I don't know if it has anything to do with the bio-
balls because I haven't used a wet/dry in 10 years so I don't know how
those influence the cycling process. You might check some of the
popular bulletin boards for more advice...reefcentral.com or reefs.org.
Good luck.

Mike

Marco Qualizza · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 65

In article , "Dragon Slayer" (nospam)@hotmail.com> says...
> correct me if I'm wrong, but most African cichlids are kept in tanks with
> much less salinity then NSW and this will cause live rock to die off and
> cause the water quality to become questionable. and once again from memory
> here, the cichlids require pristine quality water.
>
> just a thought.
> kc

You're absolutely right, KC (I happen to have a rift lake cichlid tank
at home, and they're definitely FW...) but I'm pretty sure that the OP
was talking about what he had in the tank before setting it up as SW...
(I sincerely hope that that's what he was saying...)

Dragon Slayer · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 440

yes most people are keeping the African cichlids in a tank that is FW but
they come from salt water lakes and I have seen them slowly acclimated into
a sg of 1.024 and kept marine fish that are just as aggressive. wasn't sure
if he meant he had been keeping them prior to swapping or he had them now
also.

kc

"Marco Qualizza" wrote in message@news1.sympatico.ca...
> In article , "Dragon Slayer" > (nospam)@hotmail.com> says...
> > correct me if I'm wrong, but most African cichlids are kept in tanks
with
> > much less salinity then NSW and this will cause live rock to die off and
> > cause the water quality to become questionable. and once again from
memory
> > here, the cichlids require pristine quality water.
> >
> > just a thought.
> > kc
>
> You're absolutely right, KC (I happen to have a rift lake cichlid tank
> at home, and they're definitely FW...) but I'm pretty sure that the OP
> was talking about what he had in the tank before setting it up as SW...
> (I sincerely hope that that's what he was saying...)

Marco Qualizza · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 65

Wow, I wasn't aware that they can be acclimated to salt water...
actually, I wasn't aware that the Rift lakes were considered salt water
(or brine).

In article , "Dragon Slayer" (nospam)@hotmail.com> says...
> yes most people are keeping the African cichlids in a tank that is FW but
> they come from salt water lakes and I have seen them slowly acclimated into
> a sg of 1.024 and kept marine fish that are just as aggressive. wasn't sure
> if he meant he had been keeping them prior to swapping or he had them now
> also.
>
> kc
>
>
>
> "Marco Qualizza" wrote in message
> @news1.sympatico.ca...
> > In article , "Dragon Slayer" > > (nospam)@hotmail.com> says...
> > > correct me if I'm wrong, but most African cichlids are kept in tanks
> with
> > > much less salinity then NSW and this will cause live rock to die off and
> > > cause the water quality to become questionable. and once again from
> memory
> > > here, the cichlids require pristine quality water.
> > >
> > > just a thought.
> > > kc
> >
> > You're absolutely right, KC (I happen to have a rift lake cichlid tank
> > at home, and they're definitely FW...) but I'm pretty sure that the OP
> > was talking about what he had in the tank before setting it up as SW...
> > (I sincerely hope that that's what he was saying...)
>
>
>

--
7y FW -- 33g & 55g
100 gallon reef-ready air tank. (Converting to reef)

Fishnut · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 32

Brad,

Following on from the other posts, do you have a protien skimmer
operating ? If you do, I would question the age of your ammonia
test-kit. As has been said, take a water sample to your LFS, for
comparison.

Best wishes, Fishnut.

On 25 Jun 2003 17:39:21 -0700, bradley.irwin@eglin.af.mil (Brad Irwin)
wrote:

>I have had my tank set up with live sand a 5 damsels for about 4
>months now and it still isnt done cycling. its a 72 gal bowfront tank
>with wet dry filter. the tank used to be a FW tank then sat empty in
>the garage for anout 2 months when I filled it and set it up for SW.
>At one time i saw the nitrites go up then go back down again but now
>Im still showing ammonia in small amounts and no nitrites or nitrates.
>Ive been topping off with RO water for the last 2 months. I need help
>
>Brad

Brad Irwin · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 14

To clear up confusion Chiclids are FW But I personally add small
ammounts of salt to fight parasites. This tank was FW but Im trying to
make the jump to SW but running into cycling problems. I am planning
on adding live rock just waiting for $$$ to do it. I do have a skimmer
but it is not running on advice from my LFS to not runn it untill it
is finished cycling. I have taken samples to my LFS they tested it
twice and came up with the same results or similar to my home kit.

Fishnut wrote in message news:...
> Brad,
>
> Following on from the other posts, do you have a protien skimmer
> operating ? If you do, I would question the age of your ammonia
> test-kit. As has been said, take a water sample to your LFS, for
> comparison.
>
> Best wishes, Fishnut.
>
>
>
>
> On 25 Jun 2003 17:39:21 -0700, bradley.irwin@eglin.af.mil (Brad Irwin)
> wrote:
>
> >I have had my tank set up with live sand a 5 damsels for about 4
> >months now and it still isnt done cycling. its a 72 gal bowfront tank
> >with wet dry filter. the tank used to be a FW tank then sat empty in
> >the garage for anout 2 months when I filled it and set it up for SW.
> >At one time i saw the nitrites go up then go back down again but now
> >Im still showing ammonia in small amounts and no nitrites or nitrates.
> >Ive been topping off with RO water for the last 2 months. I need help
> >
> >Brad

Richard Reynolds · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 268

go into detail describing everything that happens to this tank, what turns on when/off
when, all your water quality things like ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/alk/ph/temp .... you
are using dechlorinated water correct?? even so are you testing for chlorine? what small
amounts of ammonia are are different for everyone, so list them in ppm #'s also make
certain your using a SW capiable test kit. what kind of wetdry filter do you have? what
other filters do you have? do you add room air via an air pump? also turn on that skimmer
now, really it should have been on from day 1, as there is a break in time, and there will
always be plenty of ammonia for the cycle process to go on

--
Richard Reynolds
Richard.Reynolds@usa.net

"Brad Irwin" wrote in message@posting.google.com...
> To clear up confusion Chiclids are FW But I personally add small
> ammounts of salt to fight parasites. This tank was FW but Im trying to
> make the jump to SW but running into cycling problems. I am planning
> on adding live rock just waiting for $$$ to do it. I do have a skimmer
> but it is not running on advice from my LFS to not runn it untill it
> is finished cycling. I have taken samples to my LFS they tested it
> twice and came up with the same results or similar to my home kit.
>
>
>
> Fishnut wrote in message
news:...
> > Brad,
> >
> > Following on from the other posts, do you have a protien skimmer
> > operating ? If you do, I would question the age of your ammonia
> > test-kit. As has been said, take a water sample to your LFS, for
> > comparison.
> >
> > Best wishes, Fishnut.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 25 Jun 2003 17:39:21 -0700, bradley.irwin@eglin.af.mil (Brad Irwin)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >I have had my tank set up with live sand a 5 damsels for about 4
> > >months now and it still isnt done cycling. its a 72 gal bowfront tank
> > >with wet dry filter. the tank used to be a FW tank then sat empty in
> > >the garage for anout 2 months when I filled it and set it up for SW.
> > >At one time i saw the nitrites go up then go back down again but now
> > >Im still showing ammonia in small amounts and no nitrites or nitrates.
> > >Ive been topping off with RO water for the last 2 months. I need help
> > >
> > >Brad

DefLizard · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 15

Re: tank not cycling

Group: rec.aquaria.marine.misc Date: Fri, Jun 27, 2003, 3:12pm From:
bradley.irwin@eglin.af.mil (Brad Irwin)
To clear up confusion Chiclids are FW But I personally add small
ammounts of salt to fight parasites. This tank was FW but Im trying to
make the jump to SW but running into cycling problems. I am planning on
adding live rock just waiting for $$$ to do it. I do have a skimmer but
it is not running on advice from my LFS to not runn it untill it is
finished cycling. I have taken samples to my LFS they tested it twice
and came up with the same results or similar to my home kit.
Fishnut wrote in message
news:...
Brad,
Following on from the other posts, do you have a protien skimmer
operating ? If you do, I would question the age of your ammonia
test-kit. As has been said, take a water sample to your LFS, for
comparison.
Best wishes, Fishnut.
On 25 Jun 2003 17:39:21 -0700, bradley.irwin@eglin.af.mil (Brad Irwin)
wrote:
I have had my tank set up with live sand a 5 damsels for about 4 months
now and it still isnt done cycling. its a 72 gal bowfront tank with wet
dry filter. the tank used to be a FW tank then sat empty in the garage
for anout 2 months when I filled it and set it up for SW. At one time i
saw the nitrites go up then go back down again but now Im still showing
ammonia in small amounts and no nitrites or nitrates. Ive been topping
off with RO water for the last 2 months. I need help
Brad

***************************************************
Brad: There is a lot of confusion about the constituents of marine
aquaria, live sand, live rock, reef systems, wet/dry filters etc. You
cannot always rely on the info from various sources, especially those
who have a vested interest in selling you something (not wishing to cast
dispersions), you need to delve into the scientific basis on aquarium
keeping and the principles involved, and not just finding solutions
without an understanding of the processes involved.
Find some good books on Marine Aquaria, check out the internet (lots of
info). Here's a great place to start, as well as my web-site:
Reef Aquaria
Address:http://www.rshimek.com/reef/Default.htm Changed:3:53 PM on
Monday, June 2, 2003

http://community.webtv.net/deflizard/doc
regards, John