frozen pond

Henry & Carolyn · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 9

Hubby just discovered that our pond pump quit and pond is frozen. I've
heard people had that happen before and fish still survived. Is there any
possibility of that?
Carolyn

Archived from group: rec>ponds>moderated

Hal · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 138

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:35:17 CST, "Henry & Carolyn"
wrote:

>Hubby just discovered that our pond pump quit and pond is frozen. I've
>heard people had that happen before and fish still survived. Is there any
>possibility of that?

There is! One big problem of frozen ponds is gasses generated by
decaying mater under the ice. Venting can be most important. (Don't
use a hammer device to make a hole.) Holes can be made safely with a
battery operated hand drill and wood spade bit. An air line from an
aquarium pump dropped into the hole to promote enough circulation to
keep the hole open is all most of us need to do for fish under ice.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

Olde Hippee · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 7

On Feb 22, 1:35 pm, "Henry & Carolyn" wrote:
> Hubby just discovered that our pond pump quit and pond is frozen. I've
> heard people had that happen before and fish still survived. Is there any
> possibility of that?
> Carolyn

You need to open a hole in the ice, but not by breaking it. The noise
will harm the fish.There needs to be an ozygen/ammonia exchange thru
the water.
One way would be to take a pot of boiling water and set it on top of
the ice letting the bottom of the pot melt a hole in the ice. Then get
an aquarium pump, and start it bubbling in the water to keep the ice
from covering the whole pond again.
Another would be a livestock deicer, available form feed stores.
These are more expensive to run. You might be able to open the
initial hole with a hair dryer, or a craft hot air blower.
I decided on the bubbler a long time ago as we have friends with a
marina and figured if they could keep expensive boats from freezing
with moving air it should work in our pond. Didn't know this is a
standard with pond owners then.
Good Luck, and may your fish be healthy come spring!!
Nan in DE.

dr-solo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 194

immediately get a drive and a spade bit and drill some holes, drop an airstone down
in there.... it will allow noxious gases to escape and add some oxygen. if your pond
is reasonably deep (more than a few inches) you might try drawing the water in the
pond down so there is 2-4 inches of air space under the ice. that should work for
the rest of winter. Ingrid

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:35:17 CST, "Henry & Carolyn" wrote:

>Hubby just discovered that our pond pump quit and pond is frozen. I've
>heard people had that happen before and fish still survived. Is there any
>possibility of that?
>Carolyn

~ jan · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 276

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:35:17 CST, "Henry & Carolyn"
wrote:

>Hubby just discovered that our pond pump quit and pond is frozen. I've
>heard people had that happen before and fish still survived. Is there any
>possibility of that?
>Carolyn

Sure, if the pond was fairly clean going into winter, fish were small
and/or pond was large, gallons/fish ratio low. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Henry & Carolyn · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 9

Thanks, but I meant that most of the pond was frozen, some fish included,
not just the surface! At any rate, hubby got some of the ice off and
rescued some fish, including our 4 large koi! They are now in the garage in
a rubbermaid tub with a bubbler. Water is still a bit like a slushy, but
they seem to be ok Smile

We will do partial water changes every once in a
while, then when it warms up we will put them outside in a kiddy pool till
we can redo our pond. It was also caving in. Lesson learned : DON'T PUT
PUMP ON A TIMER IN THE WINTER! KEEP IT RUNNING!!!!

"~ jan" wrote in message @4ax.com...
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:35:17 CST, "Henry & Carolyn"
> wrote:
>
>>Hubby just discovered that our pond pump quit and pond is frozen. I've
>>heard people had that happen before and fish still survived. Is there any
>>possibility of that?
>>Carolyn
>
> Sure, if the pond was fairly clean going into winter, fish were small
> and/or pond was large, gallons/fish ratio low. ~ jan
> ------------
> Zone 7a, SE Washington State
> Ponds: www.jjspond.us
>

chatnoir · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 34

On Feb 24, 8:25 am, ~ jan wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:35:17 CST, "Henry & Carolyn"
> wrote:
>
> >Hubby just discovered that our pond pump quit and pond is frozen. I've
> >heard people had that happen before and fish still survived. Is there any
> >possibility of that?
> >Carolyn
>
> Sure, if the pond was fairly clean going into winter, fish were small
> and/or pond was large, gallons/fish ratio low. ~ jan

http://www.denverpost.com/extremes/ci_8347365

Brutal winter puts Antero fish in peril
By Charlie Meyers
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 02/23/2008 10:45:50 PM MST

In what has become an all-too-common occurrence at Colorado's most
productive fishery, the fate of trout in Antero Reservoir is hanging
by a shoestring.

With an estimated six weeks of ice cover remaining, oxygen levels at
the popular impoundment south of Fairplay have dropped well beyond the
danger level.

Despite the best efforts of Colorado Division of Wildlife crews,
conditions continue to worsen.
"It's been a harsh winter," area biologist Jeff Spohn said of a
condition caused by thick ice and a heavily crusted snow cover.

These conspired to squelch light penetration necessary to keep
abundant aquatic vegetation alive. Decaying vegetation robs the water
of oxygen while releasing toxic hydrogen sulphide.
"Even at low concentrations, hydrogen sulphide is lethal to fish,"
Spohn said. "It's a double-edged sword."

Spohn measured oxygen levels at various points in the lake Wednesday
and was dismayed at what he found: readings of only 1.5 parts per
liter or less. The highest reading was just 1.5 parts per million,
well past the danger point.

"We start seeing issues with fish of all sizes once it gets to 3 parts
per liter," he said.
Large fish -- the lunkers that so delighted anglers when Antero opened
in July following a five-year, drought-induced drawdown -- are most
susceptible to oxygen deprivation.

The biologist wouldn't speculate on how many trout already might have
died or on the prospects for survival through the remainder of winter.

"I'm not saying we're going to lose all our fish, but I am concerned
about it. We won't know until the ice goes off and we set our gill
nets," Spohn said.

What has been a brutal South Park winter delivered a final blow even
when Spohn and his crew two weeks ago launched an emergency measure to
reverse the oxygen nosedive. Using a plow attachment, they scraped
snow from a part of the 2,200-acre reservoir in an effort to let more
light in.
Spohn noted an immediate and encouraging gain of up to 0.5 ppl,
lending hope that trout might gravitate to these areas of refuge.

Then winter dealt yet another blow. Three significant snowstorms,
coupled with hurricane-force wind that reached 109 mph at Kenosha
Pass, again coated the surface with sticky snow. Accelerated
vegetation decay did the rest.

Winter mortality scarcely is a new phenomenon at Antero. Never
exceeding 15 feet in depth, the reservoir always is susceptible to the
current combination of conditions.

"The same thing that makes those fish grow so big can cause this in
winter time," Spohn said. "It grows fish fast, but every year you're
toying with this."

A dense layer of vegetation covering the entire lake serves as a rich
nursery for a variety of trout food: scuds, snails, crayfish and four
major species of aquatic insects.

During spring and summer, trout grow an astonishing 1 1/2 inches a
month. Trout stocked at 12 inches the previous year measured up to 24
inches when the reservoir reopened July 17.

The real surprise came when anglers caught several monster trout --
including a cutthroat-rainbow hybrid weighing 18.5 pounds, a state
record. Spohn opined that these outsized fish had survived in spring
seeps or at the South Fork of the South Platte River inlet during the
refilling of the reservoir. He hopes many among the current crop will
discover similar areas of sanctuary.

Meanwhile, fishing activity has come to a virtual halt. On Wednesday,
four Denver-area
Chime in With Charlie anglers were the lone specks on a platform of
solid white. Jim Bechtle, a Division of Wildlife creel clerk, reported
that not a single trout had been caught in three days. The anglers
didn't see any fish, in contrast to frequent reports of sightings and
a few sporadic catches a couple of weeks earlier.

"They've gone into survival mode," Spohn explained. "The fish are
bunched up somewhere, trying to find a refuge somewhere."

Spohn and other DOW fish managers have explored ways to alleviate
inevitable future occurrences, but with little success.

"The only things that might work involve closing the lake to ice
fishing, and they're also very expensive," said Spohn, who took an
optimist's view of the near future.

"This is disappointing, but I'd like to pass along to the people that
we'll try our best with our resources to rebuild it again."

~ jan · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 276

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:04:34 CST, "Henry & Carolyn"
wrote:

>Thanks, but I meant that most of the pond was frozen, some fish included,
>not just the surface! At any rate, hubby got some of the ice off and
>rescued some fish, including our 4 large koi! They are now in the garage in
>a rubbermaid tub with a bubbler. Water is still a bit like a slushy, but
>they seem to be ok Smile

We will do partial water changes every once in a
>while, then when it warms up we will put them outside in a kiddy pool till
>we can redo our pond. It was also caving in. Lesson learned : DON'T PUT
>PUMP ON A TIMER IN THE WINTER! KEEP IT RUNNING!!!!

Wow, I guess you'll be teaching us if pond is frozen will fish still
survive. Wishing you & fish the best of luck, keep us posted on their
outcome. ~ jan

------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

adavisus · Joined: 26 Feb 2008 Posts: 1

If you make a sturdy frame over the pond, or part of it, stretch 6mil
plastic (better still two layers) over the area you may find the 'cold
frame' may salvage the situation. Some folk nickname the technique
'solar cover' for ponds

When the sun makes the temperature within rise you can get quite a thaw
going. Through the night, the cold frame will contribute by retaing
ground warmth

You may well find the entire area enclosed completely thaws out in a
couple of days and ice stops forming...

Regards, andy
http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html

--
adavisus

dr-solo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 194

get mosquito netting and put that over the top. get elastic (fabric store) like for
waistbands and make a band that is tight enough so the netting can be kept taut. koi
like to jump right out of open tubs. for indoor use I use gravity tubs.
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/care/hardware.html#GRAVITY%20FILTER
any tub of any kind will work. just put a pine plank across the tub and plop the
gravity filter on that ... use pea gravel, it will almost instantly cycle. you need
to keep a close eye on ammonia and do water changes to keep ammonia almost
undetectable.
of course, there is always the fancy veggie filter for a tub.
http://weloveteaching.com/mypond/VF/veggie_filter.html
Ingrid

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:04:34 CST, "Henry & Carolyn" wrote:
>Thanks, but I meant that most of the pond was frozen, some fish included,
>not just the surface! At any rate, hubby got some of the ice off and
>rescued some fish, including our 4 large koi! They are now in the garage in
>a rubbermaid tub with a bubbler. Water is still a bit like a slushy, but
>they seem to be ok Smile

We will do partial water changes every once in a
>while, then when it warms up we will put them outside in a kiddy pool till
>we can redo our pond. It was also caving in. Lesson learned : DON'T PUT
>PUMP ON A TIMER IN THE WINTER! KEEP IT RUNNING!!!!

Henry & Carolyn · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 9

Thanks Andy, but we had a cold frame over it to begin with. It's just
because the pump quit.
Without any movement of the water, it froze.
"adavisus" wrote in message @gardenbanter.co.uk...
>
> If you make a sturdy frame over the pond, or part of it, stretch 6mil
> plastic (better still two layers) over the area you may find the 'cold
> frame' may salvage the situation. Some folk nickname the technique
> 'solar cover' for ponds
>
> When the sun makes the temperature within rise you can get quite a thaw
> going. Through the night, the cold frame will contribute by retaing
> ground warmth
>
> You may well find the entire area enclosed completely thaws out in a
> couple of days and ice stops forming...
>
> Regards, andy
> http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html
>
>
>
>
> --
> adavisus
>