Stocking the new pond

Gill Passman · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 169

~ jan wrote:

>
> Gill, sorry I didn't respond earlier, it was one of "those" weeks.

No worries....we all have "one of those weeks" from time to time....
>
> I agree shubunkins would be a good pick, or look for wakins. As far as how
> many, I'd only start with 3, they'll make their own. When is too many? When
> your filter can't do the job. Water tests tell all. Wink

~ jan
> ------------
> Zone 7a, SE Washington State
> Ponds: www.jjspond.us
>

The Wakins look interesting from a quick google search but I've not seen
them on sale locally. I'll take a good look when the LFS's start getting
in their stock for the spring. Maybe a mix of shubunkins and wakins
would be possible

Thanks
Gill

Archived from group: rec>ponds>moderated

~ jan · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 276

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 08:24:24 CST, Hal wrote:

>No, I think I interrupted breakfast, but he got about half of them.
>Can't be sure about exact numbers since several were new, a gift from
>a friend and I hadn't gotten to know them well. It seems the heron
>liked the brighter colors first and the bigger goldfish are missing.

Hmmm, just like most people go for the bigger & brighter. Dang birds.
~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Reel McKoi · Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 385

"Hal" wrote in message @4ax.com...
> On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:52:07 CST, ~ jan wrote:
>
>>Hal! So sorry about your loss, did it get them all?
>
> No, I think I interrupted breakfast, but he got about half of them.
> Can't be sure about exact numbers since several were new, a gift from
> a friend and I hadn't gotten to know them well. It seems the heron
> liked the brighter colors first and the bigger goldfish are missing.
===============================
You will come to find the brightest and prettiest fish, and usually the most
expensive fish, are the first to be taken. :*( We tried everything but the
motion sprayers before netting our ponds. We would need too many sprayers
to cover our ponds and if a hose split, the water bill would be enormous.
We're not on a well of our own. Also, I remember someone had an URL to a pic
of a heron that learned to fish without setting off the motion sprayer.
Herons, like crows, are not stupid birds.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ } ~~~ }

Gill Passman · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 169

~ jan wrote:

>
> Hmmm, just like most people go for the bigger & brighter. Dang birds.
> ~ jan
> ------------
> Zone 7a, SE Washington State
> Ponds: www.jjspond.us
>

It would be interesting to know if herons can see in colour.....a lot of
animals can't but some can - actually some fish spring to mind......my
thought without researching is that colour is not a particular issue to
your usual native heron.....the mainstay of their diet will be
brown/grey fish from rivers and lakes......but then it would still be
interesting to know if this is a factor or not....

Bigger.....I can get.....doesn't matter about the colour of the fish
then.....bigger fish will move just that tad slower than smaller ones.....

Anyway, right now I don't know if the heron will be a problem even if I
fear the worst......maybe some experimental decoy fish might be useful
in determining this......if he attemps the decoys even just once then I
know I'm in for a problem.....

Gill

Hal · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 138

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 15:55:12 CST, "Reel McKoi"
wrote:

>Herons, like crows, are not stupid birds.

I'm hoping this one is smart enough to know he isn't welcome here.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

Hal · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 138

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:05:37 CST, Gill Passman
wrote:

>It would be interesting to know if herons can see in colour.....a lot of
>animals can't but some can - actually some fish spring to mind......my
>thought without researching is that colour is not a particular issue to
>your usual native heron.....the mainstay of their diet will be
>brown/grey fish from rivers and lakes......but then it would still be
>interesting to know if this is a factor or not....

I don't know if the birds see in color, but a color blind person sees
light and dark shades and I assume the heron does too, unless it sees
the color. The goldfish would appear lighter/brighter than the fish
that appear black on a black liner. Anyway this one ate big bright
colored fish and left two smaller gold and 4 dark colored ones when I
interrupted.

(Way off topic) My sister Avel was visually impaired as well as color
blind and couldn't see the time when she woke during the night on a 2"
red LED clock. I found one with the blue/green LED in a 2" and she
could see that well enough to know what hour it was when she woke.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

~ jan · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 276

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:05:37 CST, Gill Passman
wrote:

>It would be interesting to know if herons can see in colour.....

All day active birds supposedly recognize color, whereas night birds are
most likely color blind. That's why the male has such pretty feathers, to
attract females, and bugs have defensively color patterns. "Ewww, the
yellow ones taste icky!" So yea, bright fish are pretty much goners.

>Anyway, right now I don't know if the heron will be a problem even if I
>fear the worst......maybe some experimental decoy fish might be useful
>in determining this......if he attemps the decoys even just once then I
>know I'm in for a problem.....
>Gill

Actually they go for the decoy and realize this pond has no tasty fish. It
will be hard to tell if one comes, as you anchor the decoy they don't carry
it off. The idea being it is ripped from their beaks. I always imagined
what fun it would be to have a decoy on a bungee cord. Wink

As one of our MG
teachers use to say, "Birds learn" if you teach them that your pond is full
of plastic fish before you get real fish, they're less likely to visit
again, at least that is my hope! ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

Gill Passman · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 169

Hal wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:05:37 CST, Gill Passman
> wrote:
>
>
>>It would be interesting to know if herons can see in colour.....a lot of
>>animals can't but some can - actually some fish spring to mind......my
>>thought without researching is that colour is not a particular issue to
>>your usual native heron.....the mainstay of their diet will be
>>brown/grey fish from rivers and lakes......but then it would still be
>>interesting to know if this is a factor or not....
>
>
> I don't know if the birds see in color, but a color blind person sees
> light and dark shades and I assume the heron does too, unless it sees
> the color. The goldfish would appear lighter/brighter than the fish
> that appear black on a black liner. Anyway this one ate big bright
> colored fish and left two smaller gold and 4 dark colored ones when I
> interrupted.

Well I did some googling in a random spare minute and the answer is yes,
they can see in colour.....in fact the visual range of a heron is really
quite interesting reading.

>
> (Way off topic) My sister Avel was visually impaired as well as color
> blind and couldn't see the time when she woke during the night on a 2"
> red LED clock. I found one with the blue/green LED in a 2" and she
> could see that well enough to know what hour it was when she woke.

IIRC it goes that way - it's either red or green/blue but rarely both. I
think the actual colour is related to gender but could be wrong.

Gill

Reel McKoi · Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 385

"Gill Passman" wrote in message $0$510$5a6aecb4@news.aaisp.net.uk...
>~ jan wrote:
>
>>
>> Hmmm, just like most people go for the bigger & brighter. Dang birds. ~
>> jan
>> ------------
>> Zone 7a, SE Washington State
>> Ponds: www.jjspond.us
>>
>
> It would be interesting to know if herons can see in colour.....a lot of
> animals can't but some can - actually some fish spring to mind......my
> thought without researching is that colour is not a particular issue to
> your usual native heron.....the mainstay of their diet will be brown/grey
> fish from rivers and lakes......but then it would still be interesting to
> know if this is a factor or not....

Yes, I read that birds see colors to identify fruit and other things they
eat. Fish evolved with dull colors because of predation. Where predation is
light they are much more colorful.

>
> Bigger.....I can get.....doesn't matter about the colour of the fish
> then.....bigger fish will move just that tad slower than smaller ones.....
>
> Anyway, right now I don't know if the heron will be a problem even if I
> fear the worst......maybe some experimental decoy fish might be useful in
> determining this......if he attemps the decoys even just once then I know
> I'm in for a problem.....

If you see a heron in your neighborhood you can be sure it will be a problem
sooner or later. If he's already had experience with a fake fish he will
know to avoid them.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ } ~~~ }

Chip · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 26

Hal wrote:

color
> blind and couldn't see the time when she woke during the night on a 2"
> red LED clock. I found one with the blue/green LED in a 2" and she
> could see that well enough to know what hour it was when she woke.

You betcha! Don't know who decided that red LEDs on a dark or black
background was a good display, but he should be shot. Same goes for red
print on black background that some web sites use. Can't even read
them. And then some genius decided that red is the color to use for
alerts and warnings. Approx 10% of males are red/green deficient
colorblind and can't see the damn things or it just looks dark to them

Chip

Hal · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 138

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:35:45 CST, Chip wrote:

>You betcha! Don't know who decided that red LEDs on a dark or black
>background was a good display, but he should be shot. Same goes for red
>print on black background that some web sites use. Can't even read
>them. And then some genius decided that red is the color to use for
>alerts and warnings. Approx 10% of males are red/green deficient
>colorblind and can't see the damn things or it just looks dark to them

I've never had a problem with a color test, but I've had problems with
some web pages too. Sometimes taking the mouse and highlighting the
text helps.
--
Hal Middle Georgia, Zone 8
http://tinyurl.com/2fxzcb

Reel McKoi · Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 385

"~ jan" wrote in message @4ax.com...
> Actually they go for the decoy and realize this pond has no tasty fish. It
> will be hard to tell if one comes, as you anchor the decoy they don't
> carry
> it off. The idea being it is ripped from their beaks. I always imagined
> what fun it would be to have a decoy on a bungee cord. Wink

As one of our
> MG
> teachers use to say, "Birds learn" if you teach them that your pond is
> full
> of plastic fish before you get real fish, they're less likely to visit
> again, at least that is my hope! ~ jan
=====================================
Your MG teachers may not have been aware that as old birds die off or move
off, new birds are constantly arriving or being born in the area. There's a
constant turnover of wildlife in any area. These new birds would know
nothing about the plastic ones used before their arrival. Also, I read that
most fish predators are attracted to the "movement" of the fish in a body of
water below, unlike carrion eaters who look for "non movement." Carrion
eaters are not a threat to living pond fish.
--

RM....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ } ~~~ }