Cycling help, appreciated!

Cshenk · Joined: 16 Oct 2007 Posts: 15

Hi all! Wth several replies I'll do a group 'thanks' for all of you.
BioSpira it is. I would not have remembered the name of brands very well.

I got my first fish (goldfish) when I was 12. It was still alive when I was
27 (gifted to a friend when I was 23 and joined the Navy 24 years ago).
I've had fish tanks everyplace I've ever lived. Even in Sasebo Japan, we
had a cute toy unit (5g) with tetras. Now tht we are back stateside, my
stored 70gTall unit (a little thinner and a little taller than most other
70g's) will be here Thursday. It's inital home will be on the porch, filled
and just waiting patiently to make sure it doesnt leak . I believe I
have a 30 and a 40g tank each in strorage as well.

My normal cycling method has been to use 1-2 fish of a sturdy type that I'll
keep, combined with the bottled 'biota'. Normally, with a really big tank
and careful checks, the starter fish do survive. Goldfish BTW are perfect
for this but unless you plan to keep the tank a goldfish tank, you have a
problem finding it a home. The LFS here *used* to let you buy one, cycle,
then return it for 1/2 the cost. These were just scruff feeder fish and
itty bitty enough they couldnt sell them til they got older and they were
happy with the deal. I refuse to get a fish just to throw it down the
toilet becase I can't find it a home. I may cycle the big tank with
guppies, then move them to the smaller tank.

Using bith the 'biota' and fsh, makes the process a bit faster and a bit
more fun as we have something in there at the start. I let the tank sit for
a week with the biota before i add the first 1-2 small fish, and then they
complete the cycle. The reminder of 'about a month' for fishless cycle,
turned the brainwaves back on. It takes 7-10 days less if you add fish at
the end of the first week. Also, smaller tanks oddly to me, take longer to
get a really *good* cycle than the 70gT tank.

I generally stick to simpler less expensive fish. Curious what you folks
have found workable for community tanks? I generally prefer lots of mid to
small sized ones in the 70g as opposed to just a few big ones.
xxcarol

Archived from group: rec>aquaria>freshwater>goldfish

Tynk · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 150

On Oct 17, 3:50?pm, "Aiptasia" wrote:
> Hi Carol,
>
> Usually what I do are fishless cycles on my new tanks using Bio-Spira, or
> just some squeezes from a sponge filter in one of my other tanks. You can
> use 100% pure household ammonia (comes in clear white bottles, no
> sulfactents or detergents) that you can find in the cleaning aisles of most
> stores and maintain an ammonia level of 2 parts per million. Use an ammonia
> test kit to maintain the water at that level every day throughout the cycle
> and monitor it also with nitrite and nitrate test kits. The first strains of
> bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite grow in first, and you'll be able
> to see the tank's beneficial bacteria start to consume the ammonia by
> converting it into nitrite within a few days. The second strains of bacteria
> that convert nitrite to nitrate take a little longer to grow in, and you
> will see a large buildup of nitrite over about a two week period. Then,
> you'll see a dramatic crash in the nitrite levels and a spike in nitrate.
> When you see that nitrite level crash from off the chart nitrite to zero
> nitrite and all nitrate, then you know your tank is cycled.
>
> At that point, you can stop dosing the tank with ammonia and add whichever
> fish you want. You don't need to worry about subjecting any fish to the
> nitrogen cycle and you can introduce all of the fish at the same time if you
> wish (useful for semi-aggressives and aggressive fish tanks).
>
> Bio-spira works fine but it relies on the fact that the spores of bacteria
> in solution will grow to a population large enough to handle both ammonia
> and nitrites before they build up to a level where they become stressful on
> your fish. With my own testing (with liquid test kits) i've found that it
> does handle ammonia well but not nitrites. In fact, unless it's a very large
> tank with very few fish in it or a heavily planted freshwater tank, I
> wouldn't suggest anyone believe for a second that using bio-spira is an
> "instant" cycle method. It's just another way to seed a biological filter,
> which does speed up the process, but isn't instant.
>
> I hope this helps you with your future tank projects.
>
> -Aiptasia
>
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I've used BioSpira myself, several times with great results.
I've used it on tanks as small as 3g's on up to a 75g.
I also know of many other seasoned hobbyists who have had great
results as well.
The products works.
Of course proper tank maintenance is a must, so there shouldn't be a
build up of anything to harmful levels (that's a general comment, and
not directed towards *Aiptasia*).
I had one fish buddy tell me of horrible results, however I believe
that to be a result of improper storage before she bought it.
She thought it was a bit brownish and gloppy. That's what it looks
like when the bacteria are dead and useless.
I wish the product had a clear area in the packaging so we could see
if it looked spoiled or not.
One local PetLand's mini fridge wasn't working right and it was
freezing packs in the back, rendering them useless.
The employees didn't know it would kill the live bacteria, so they
just moved the frozen ones to the front (thawing them out).
It's way too delicate a product and I think more information is needed
from the company on how to properly store it.
I wrote in another post about how in a different shop an employee was
stocking it and put it out on the shelf next to the other bacteria
starters (which do not work), such as Cycle and StressZyme, etc. By
the time they found out it had to be in the frige, it had been too
long. However, because he was ignorant of the requirements and what
can happen of they aren't kept, he put it back in the fridge.
People who purchased any before I did may not have known that it
shouldn't be brownish clumps. I felt bad for them, because their fish
are going to stress (or even die), and they've paid a lot of money for
it too.
The owner of that shop was a great guy and quickly figured out what
happened.
They have a strict no cash refund policy, however, I didn't even have
to ask him. He handed me what I had paid for it and apologized for the
trouble, and was very nice.
This is the problem with the product though. It's easily killed off,
and you have no way of telling when you buy it if it's fine or not.

Tynk · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 150

On Oct 17, 3:50?pm, "Aiptasia" wrote:
> Hi Carol,
>
> Usually what I do are fishless cycles on my new tanks using Bio-Spira, or
> just some squeezes from a sponge filter in one of my other tanks.

You mentioned squeezing a sponge filter into a new tank to help jump
start the cycling process.
It was recently discovered that the nitrifying bacteria are quite
sticky and adhere to the surface they're on like glue.
In fact, it's actually pretty hard to get them off.
Using old tank water, debris from gravel (just the gunk, not the
actual gravel), and squeezing filter media will not add bacteria like
many of us (me included) once thought.
I learned this several years ago and have been talking about it
since.
An issue of Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine a while back had an
article on this very thing.
I was so happy that they did that.

Reel McKoi · Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 385

"Tynk" wrote in message @i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> You mentioned squeezing a sponge filter into a new tank to help jump
> start the cycling process.
> It was recently discovered that the nitrifying bacteria are quite
> sticky and adhere to the surface they're on like glue.
> In fact, it's actually pretty hard to get them off.
> Using old tank water, debris from gravel (just the gunk, not the
> actual gravel), and squeezing filter media will not add bacteria like
> many of us (me included) once thought.
> I learned this several years ago and have been talking about it
> since.
> An issue of Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine a while back had an
> article on this very thing.
> I was so happy that they did that.
====================================
I just use a whole Aquaclear sponge from a cycled tank now, or the bag of
bio-beads that sits on the sponge. It works really good..... Wink

--

RM....
Zone 6. Middle TN USA
~~~~ } ~~~ }

Tynk · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 150

On Oct 19, 8:34?am, "Aiptasia" wrote:
> I wish fishstoretn.com still sold it. Fostersmith.com wants mad money for
> bio-spira these days (double the price) and they even charge you extra for a
> cold pack. Their cold packs aren't gel type either, just a pocket of ice
> which melts by the time you recieve the box.
>
> If anyone knows a good online source for it, let me know. Sometimes people
> ask me where to get it and I hate sending them to fostersmith.com where $10
> items sell for $20+.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------
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Mail order supplies that have to be kept at a certain temp are a pain
in the butt to ship.
Add that to Marineland's bad luck with their bacteria stock (that they
make the product out of), being killed off because of wildfires in
their area.
You couldn't find the stuff anywhere for near a year or so. When the
stores finally had stock coming back in the prices jumped WAY up. = /

Reel McKoi · Joined: 27 Sep 2007 Posts: 385

"Aiptasia" wrote in message @sp12lax.superfeed.net...
> Well, you're right. It's probably better to just put a well cycled bit of
> filter material into a new tank. I use a lot of aqua clear filters and
> they
> come with both ceramic media and filter sponges, so it's easy to remove
> one
> or the other and put them into a new tank for an instant cycle. You can
> also
> slip a sponge filter over the intake tube of one of your filters for a few
> weeks and allow it to populate with bacteria, then put that in a new tank.
>
> Food for thought.
============================
I always have an Aquaclear sponge on my in take tubes. Extra filtering,
small weak fish wont get caught in the inflow and they're ready made for a
new tank that's not cycled. Smile

--

RM....
~~~~ } ~~~ }