What Lighting...

Fish Heads · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 11

Forget about the tubes...I cheat and use spiral daylight compact
fluorescents that screw into a regular light socket. They are cheaper and
brighter than the tubes. I currently do a 29 gallon with just one modified
incandescent light strip. I've got a fair number of plants but most are
crypts, anubias, and java fern variants. I do have an Amazon Sword and a
Aponogeton ulvaceus that both seem to be doing just fine.

Good luck!

PS In answer to your question, 2 20W spiral daylight compact fluorescents
should give you enough light for just about anything except the really
exotic stuff in that kind of tank. I use the 5100k bulbs.

Archived from group: rec>aquaria>freshwater>misc

Marcus Fox · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 41

For a 60L tank. How many tubes and what wattage?

Thanks,

Marcus

SG · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 56

In article , Fish Heads wrote:

>Forget about the tubes...I cheat and use spiral daylight compact
>fluorescents that screw into a regular light socket. They are
>cheaper and brighter than the tubes.

I us these as well. They are great if you have an old incandescent
hood. If you are setting up new though they are more expensive then
T12 tubes. 24" 20watt plant grow tubes are half the cost of compacts.

If you can swing a hammer you can easily build your own light hood to
hold as much light as you wish. DIY light assemblies range from
Hagen's GloMat2 fully assembled endcaps and ballast, to parts that
require some assembly.

If you want lots of light look to PowerCompat where a single 21"/55cm
tube puts out 55w of high quality light. If you are in the UK look for
T5 tubes. For an ideal of what is out there have a look at:
http://hellolights.com/
It is probably not the best place to order though. I took pictures
into a local industrial supply store and they found the parts for me
for less.

>PS In answer to your question, 2 20W spiral daylight compact fluorescents
>should give you enough light for just about anything except the really
>exotic stuff in that kind of tank. I use the 5100k bulbs.

I disagree 2w/gallon, 0.5w/l is only "low light." There are plants
that will grow in low light, and other common plants that will mearly
survive. There are other plants that do much better under 2 and 3
times that much light. 2x20w flourescent is fine though for those of
us who are interested in adding low light plants to liven up our
aquarium. (Something I recomend to all aquarist.)

NetMax · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 56

"SG" wrote in message@ogre.bishop...
> In article , Fish Heads
wrote:

>
> >PS In answer to your question, 2 20W spiral daylight compact
fluorescents
> >should give you enough light for just about anything except the really
> >exotic stuff in that kind of tank. I use the 5100k bulbs.
>
> I disagree 2w/gallon, 0.5w/l is only "low light." There are plants
> that will grow in low light, and other common plants that will mearly
> survive. There are other plants that do much better under 2 and 3
> times that much light. 2x20w flourescent is fine though for those of
> us who are interested in adding low light plants to liven up our
> aquarium. (Something I recomend to all aquarist.)

Two watts per gallon is only 'low light'?? *gulp*, and you would run
6w/g.... I'm going to have to make my little fishies tiny sunglasses ;~)

NetMax

SG · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 56

In article , NetMax wrote:
>
>Two watts per gallon is only 'low light'?? *gulp*, and you would run
>6w/g....

heh reef keepers run 8 and up. I suspect the that freshwater plants
guys run similar. 2w/gal is low, but it is also enough to keep a good
number of plants.

Marcus Fox · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 41

"NetMax" wrote in message$Tx.1008346@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> "SG" wrote in message
> @ogre.bishop...
> > In article , Fish Heads
> wrote:
>
> >
> > >PS In answer to your question, 2 20W spiral daylight compact
> fluorescents
> > >should give you enough light for just about anything except the really
> > >exotic stuff in that kind of tank. I use the 5100k bulbs.
> >
> > I disagree 2w/gallon, 0.5w/l is only "low light." There are plants
> > that will grow in low light, and other common plants that will mearly
> > survive. There are other plants that do much better under 2 and 3
> > times that much light. 2x20w flourescent is fine though for those of
> > us who are interested in adding low light plants to liven up our
> > aquarium. (Something I recomend to all aquarist.)
>
> Two watts per gallon is only 'low light'?? *gulp*, and you would run
> 6w/g.... I'm going to have to make my little fishies tiny sunglasses ;~)

So, I'll need 30 watts for 15 gallons then? One 15 W tube and one reflector.

Marcus

Fish Heads · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 11

The two watts per gallon you mention is from the "old days" of fluorescent
tubes. For compact flourescent (especially spirals), that number is lower
because they give off sooo much light.

"SG" wrote in message@ogre.bishop...
> In article , Fish Heads wrote:
>
> >Forget about the tubes...I cheat and use spiral daylight compact
> >fluorescents that screw into a regular light socket. They are
> >cheaper and brighter than the tubes.
>
> I us these as well. They are great if you have an old incandescent
> hood. If you are setting up new though they are more expensive then
> T12 tubes. 24" 20watt plant grow tubes are half the cost of compacts.
>
> If you can swing a hammer you can easily build your own light hood to
> hold as much light as you wish. DIY light assemblies range from
> Hagen's GloMat2 fully assembled endcaps and ballast, to parts that
> require some assembly.
>
> If you want lots of light look to PowerCompat where a single 21"/55cm
> tube puts out 55w of high quality light. If you are in the UK look for
> T5 tubes. For an ideal of what is out there have a look at:
> http://hellolights.com/
> It is probably not the best place to order though. I took pictures
> into a local industrial supply store and they found the parts for me
> for less.
>
>
> >PS In answer to your question, 2 20W spiral daylight compact
fluorescents
> >should give you enough light for just about anything except the really
> >exotic stuff in that kind of tank. I use the 5100k bulbs.
>
> I disagree 2w/gallon, 0.5w/l is only "low light." There are plants
> that will grow in low light, and other common plants that will mearly
> survive. There are other plants that do much better under 2 and 3
> times that much light. 2x20w flourescent is fine though for those of
> us who are interested in adding low light plants to liven up our
> aquarium. (Something I recomend to all aquarist.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Graham Broadbridge · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 23

Most freshwater plant folks who also keep fish in the tanks use between 2-4
wpg.

More is great for plant only tanks.

Graham.

"SG" wrote in message@ogre.bishop...
> In article , NetMax wrote:
> >
> >Two watts per gallon is only 'low light'?? *gulp*, and you would run
> >6w/g....
>
> heh reef keepers run 8 and up. I suspect the that freshwater plants
> guys run similar. 2w/gal is low, but it is also enough to keep a good
> number of plants.

SG · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 56

In article , Fish Heads wrote:
>The two watts per gallon you mention is from the "old days" of fluorescent
>tubes. For compact flourescent (especially spirals), that number is lower
>because they give off sooo much light.

Compact fluoroscents are no brighter then tubes from the "old days."
Compact fluorescents put out about 60lumens/watt the same as normal
output T12 and T8 tubes. Power Compacts on the other hand pump out
80-90lumens/watt.

NetMax · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 56

"SG" wrote in message@ogre.bishop...
> In article , NetMax
wrote:
> >
> >Two watts per gallon is only 'low light'?? *gulp*, and you would run
> >6w/g....
>
> heh reef keepers run 8 and up. I suspect the that freshwater plants
> guys run similar. 2w/gal is low, but it is also enough to keep a good
> number of plants.

I think you are in r.a.f.p. more than I am these days, but the number I
hear repeated a lot, is to keep below 3 w/g unless you are using CO2
injection, otherwise you risk making green soup out of your freshwater
aquarium. Retail aquariums which constitute 99 point something % of the
aquariums in the world are under 1w/g (typically 0.7 to 0.8 w/g). Most
of the manufacturers have upgraded hoods available for the larger tanks
(ie: Oceanic has CF, and Hagen has dual T-8 hoods), but 0.7-0.8 w/g still
rules.

While plant growth is achievable in low light (0.5 w/g), IME you need the
right plants and some patience. What I generally hear (commercially) is
that an average light level (as defined from a plant growth perspective)
is 1 w/g, so low light is under 1 w/g and high light is over 1 w/g (and
no maximum is specified ;~). What I have seen is that commercial
aquariums sold for LFS are typically between 0.8 and 1.2 w/g, with plant
only tanks going to 1.6 w/g. These are all crude measurements not taking
into account factors such as depth and surface area.

FWIW, my own non-CO2 tanks vary from 0.5 to 2.7w/g. IMO algae growth is
not linear with light levels (my 2.7w/g is currently algae free *knock on
wood, I'm afraid to change anything*), and 80% of the plants I've tried
in 1.2w/g have grown effortlessly. I believe you could go higher than
3w/g in a non-CO2 tank, but the equilibrium becomes more hairy to manage,
so I wouldn't recommend it without CO2 injection, JMNSHO.

NetMax

SG · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 56

In article , NetMax wrote:
>
>I think you are in r.a.f.p. more than I am these days, but the number I
>hear repeated a lot, is to keep below 3 w/g unless you are using CO2
>injection, otherwise you risk making green soup out of your freshwater
>aquarium.

Interesting. I may get that CO2 injector for the new tank after all.

Full noon tropical sunlight is about 10000 (10k)
lumens/square_foot. About equivalent to 110-125watts/square_foot of
high intensity flourescent (VHO, power compact) or metal halide. By a
rough measure as sunlight has a much better spectrum then man made
light.

Victor M. Martinez · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 36

Replying to two posts at once.

NetMax wrote:
>"SG" wrote in message
>> heh reef keepers run 8 and up. I suspect the that freshwater plants
>> guys run similar. 2w/gal is low, but it is also enough to keep a good
>> number of plants.

I've never heard of any freshwater tank with more than 4 W/gallon. 2 W/gallon
is most definitely not low light. 1 W/gallon is. My 110 g tank has 1 W/gallon
and I grow a large variety of plants, including some so-called high-light
plants.

>I think you are in r.a.f.p. more than I am these days, but the number I
>hear repeated a lot, is to keep below 3 w/g unless you are using CO2

That sounds about the right number.

>in 1.2w/g have grown effortlessly. I believe you could go higher than
>3w/g in a non-CO2 tank, but the equilibrium becomes more hairy to manage,
>so I wouldn't recommend it without CO2 injection, JMNSHO.

Absolutely! Without added CO2, the extra light would be wasted.

--
Victor M. Martinez
martiv@FAKE.che.utexas.edu
http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv

NetMax · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 56

"SG" wrote in message@ogre.bishop...
> In article , NetMax
wrote:
> >
> >I think you are in r.a.f.p. more than I am these days, but the number
I
> >hear repeated a lot, is to keep below 3 w/g unless you are using CO2
> >injection, otherwise you risk making green soup out of your freshwater
> >aquarium.
>
> Interesting. I may get that CO2 injector for the new tank after all.
>
> Full noon tropical sunlight is about 10000 (10k)
> lumens/square_foot. About equivalent to 110-125watts/square_foot of
> high intensity flourescent (VHO, power compact) or metal halide. By a
> rough measure as sunlight has a much better spectrum then man made
> light.

Interesting data, so my 60g would receive 6 sq.ft. x 120w at high noon
(equivalent to 720w or 12w/g). I wonder how far from noon the sun has to
be for refraction to significantly reduce light penetration. The
tropical sun is on more than the daily typical 12 hours of light we use,
but our lights are full on instead of peaking at high noon, and we don't
have to content with cloudy days. In my 2.7 w/g setup, there is 160w or
1,920w/day. I wonder what a tropical exposure would be after allowing
for refraction & cloud cover. I bet it would still be more than
1,920w/day. I might have this in my notes for solar radiation by
latitude, but to find it *&#!. Anyone have this figure handy? It's
commonly used for solar panel configurations.

NetMax

Buckaroo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 14

There are computer-based systems for gradually implementing light cycles in
aquaria.