Upside-down Ryukin?

Dana Taramina · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 16

Hi all, hope you can help. I have a 45 gallon tank with 5 fish in it.
One redcap oranda, two black moors, and 2 pearl scale ryukins. Tank is
running well but I'm having major algae blooms I can't quite explain.
(No direct sunlight, water temp is steady at 70 degrees, pH and
nitrates just tested at Big Al's are normal.) Filter is an Aqua Clear
70. I do water changes every 2 weeks. Kent Freshwater Pro-Clear seems
to have cleaned up the water finally, but that doesn't really address
why it's happening in the first place. I'm still confused about that.

Here's my question for tonight though. My ryukins, one more than the
other, float upside-down for several hours after I feed them. (And I'm
very careful not to overfeed them.) Any idea what causes this? I've
tried floating food vs. sinking food and it doesn't seem to make any
difference. Any help is appreciated...

Dana

Archived from group: rec>aquaria>freshwater>goldfish

Navy Diver · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 1

Any idea what causes this? I've
tried floating food vs. sinking food and it doesn't seem to make any
difference. Any help is appreciated...

Dana

possible swim bladder disorder. not much you can do as they tend to
all have this. I've had three of my last 5 orandas develope this.

Pondmeister · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 23

Evidentlyi t got into your stash........and got high and messed up!

On 8 May 2007 04:33:15 -0700, Navy Diver
wrote:

>Any idea what causes this? I've
>tried floating food vs. sinking food and it doesn't seem to make any
>difference. Any help is appreciated...
>
>Dana
>
>possible swim bladder disorder. not much you can do as they tend to
>all have this. I've had three of my last 5 orandas develope this.

-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Dana Taramina · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 16

On Tue, 08 May 2007 13:32:06 GMT, dr-solo@wi.rr.xx.com wrote:

>nitrates are normal? really?

Well, that's what the guy at Big Al's said. Should I get my own test
kit and do it myself? Might he just have been referring to ammonia or
pH when he said "the water's normal"?

>usually algae responds to nitrates, altho, if the fish
>are spawning this can spike ammonia and you might not catch it.

Fish are not spawning.

>I am pretty surprised with that fish load and infrequent water changes that your
>nitrates are low , at or lower than 20 ppm.

Do I have too many fish? I knew it was close, but I could send a
couple to Big Al's.

>if you have gravel on the bottom, this could be fueling a problem.

I do have gravel, but keep it very clean.
>
>floating;
>http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/disease/symptom/symptom.htm#floating%20problems
>
Thanks, I'll go read that in a moment.

>it this cannot be resolved the fish will end up upside down permanently
>get your temp up to 78oF

ok, but I thought GF were cold water fish?

>soak the food for an hour before feeding, and only a mouthful per fish. overfeeding
>and compaction/rotting is the major cause of floating. in a pond these fish spend
>all day hunting for itty bitty things to eat.

ok. Would it be better to feed them tiny amounts several times a day?

>get some freeze dried krill and daphnia to feed them.

I have some, but had kind of been using it for "treats".

> GF are not really herbivores,
>they digest protein and fats and stuff that lives in the water. never feed food with
>corn or other carbohydrates in the first 3 ingredients.

I'll go read labels.

>fish are very efficient at converting food to muscle. they just dont need that much
>food, especially not at one time. Ingrid

Thanks for your help Ingrid.

Dana

Dana Taramina · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 16

On 8 May 2007 04:33:15 -0700, Navy Diver
wrote:

>possible swim bladder disorder. not much you can do as they tend to
>all have this. I've had three of my last 5 orandas develope this.

I had an oranda do it too, many years ago. Thanks.

Dana

Dana Taramina · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 16

On Tue, 08 May 2007 13:32:06 GMT, dr-solo@wi.rr.xx.com wrote:

>floating;
>http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/disease/symptom/symptom.htm#floating%20problems
>

That is a *ton * of info, thanks. Going to get the heater and put it
back in the tank right now. If you don't use gravel in a tank for a
substrate, what do you use?

Dana

dr-solo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 1445

nitrates are normal? really? usually algae responds to nitrates, altho, if the fish
are spawning this can spike ammonia and you might not catch it.
I am pretty surprised with that fish load and infrequent water changes that your
nitrates are low , at or lower than 20 ppm.
if you have gravel on the bottom, this could be fueling a problem.

floating;
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/disease/symptom/symptom.htm#floating%20problems

it this cannot be resolved the fish will end up upside down permanently
get your temp up to 78oF
soak the food for an hour before feeding, and only a mouthful per fish. overfeeding
and compaction/rotting is the major cause of floating. in a pond these fish spend
all day hunting for itty bitty things to eat.
get some freeze dried krill and daphnia to feed them. GF are not really herbivores,
they digest protein and fats and stuff that lives in the water. never feed food with
corn or other carbohydrates in the first 3 ingredients.
fish are very efficient at converting food to muscle. they just dont need that much
food, especially not at one time. Ingrid

Dana Taramina wrote:

>Hi all, hope you can help. I have a 45 gallon tank with 5 fish in it.
>One redcap oranda, two black moors, and 2 pearl scale ryukins. Tank is
>running well but I'm having major algae blooms I can't quite explain.
>(No direct sunlight, water temp is steady at 70 degrees, pH and
>nitrates just tested at Big Al's are normal.) Filter is an Aqua Clear
>70. I do water changes every 2 weeks. Kent Freshwater Pro-Clear seems
>to have cleaned up the water finally, but that doesn't really address
>why it's happening in the first place. I'm still confused about that.
>
>Here's my question for tonight though. My ryukins, one more than the
>other, float upside-down for several hours after I feed them. (And I'm
>very careful not to overfeed them.) Any idea what causes this? I've
>tried floating food vs. sinking food and it doesn't seem to make any
>difference. Any help is appreciated...
>
>Dana

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

dr-solo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 1445

nothing. the bottom of the tank gets coated with algae and it looks great. there is
no "cleaning" anymore. just water changes to keep nitrates low.
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/care/plants.html
Ingrid

Dana Taramina wrote:
If you don't use gravel in a tank for a
>substrate, what do you use?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

dr-solo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 1445

Dana Taramina wrote:

Might he just have been referring to ammonia or
>pH when he said "the water's normal"?

...... yup, always good to get your own kits

>Do I have too many fish? I knew it was close, but I could send a
>couple to Big Al's.
......... IIRC, you have 45 gallon tank and 1 filter. 3 large fish, 4 smaller fish,
OR, increase water changes to keep nitrates at or below 20 ppm.

>I do have gravel, but keep it very clean.
................ you would be surprised how much organics are caught in the gravel.
reach down and grab a handful of gravel all the way to the glass like you are going
to take it out of the tank and pick it up and see how much "stuff" swirls up into the
water. however, do not actually decide to remove all the gravel with the fish in
the tank, they must be moved out temporarily to a bucket with airstones.

>ok, but I thought GF were cold water fish?
........... no, they arent. their ideal temp for metabolism is closer to 75. they
can "exist" at lower temps, but it isnt ideal

>ok. Would it be better to feed them tiny amounts several times a day?
>I have some, but had kind of been using it for "treats".
........ yes, tiny amounts more X per day.

INgrid

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at
http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/
sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website.
I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

Dana Taramina · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 16

On Wed, 09 May 2007 12:21:36 GMT, dr-solo@wi.rr.xx.com wrote:

>nothing. the bottom of the tank gets coated with algae and it looks great. there is
>no "cleaning" anymore. just water changes to keep nitrates low.
>http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/care/plants.html
>Ingrid

Oh, very cool! The tank looks beautiful...

Dana

Dana Taramina · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 16

On Wed, 09 May 2007 12:23:28 GMT, dr-solo@wi.rr.xx.com wrote:

>Dana Taramina wrote:
>
> Might he just have been referring to ammonia or
>>pH when he said "the water's normal"?
>
>..... yup, always good to get your own kits

ok, I'll do that.
>
>
>>Do I have too many fish? I knew it was close, but I could send a
>>couple to Big Al's.
>........ IIRC, you have 45 gallon tank and 1 filter. 3 large fish, 4 smaller fish,
>OR, increase water changes to keep nitrates at or below 20 ppm.

ok. I have 2 large-ish fish and 3 small-ish ones. Filter is an
Aqua-Clear 70. I'll do more water changed. (Once a week, perhaps?)
Have to go to Big Al's soon anyway, I'll pick up a water test kit
then.
>
>>I do have gravel, but keep it very clean.
>............... you would be surprised how much organics are caught in the gravel.
>reach down and grab a handful of gravel all the way to the glass like you are going
>to take it out of the tank and pick it up and see how much "stuff" swirls up into the
>water. however, do not actually decide to remove all the gravel with the fish in
>the tank, they must be moved out temporarily to a bucket with airstones.

ok, will do. I'll check out how clean my gravel is (or is not) today.
>
>>ok, but I thought GF were cold water fish?
>.......... no, they arent. their ideal temp for metabolism is closer to 75. they
>can "exist" at lower temps, but it isnt ideal

huh. I always thought 68 - 70 was good temp for them. Well, the heater
is in and the water is now at 76. Fish look happy.
>
>>ok. Would it be better to feed them tiny amounts several times a day?
>>I have some, but had kind of been using it for "treats".
>....... yes, tiny amounts more X per day.

ok again. Thanks for all of your help. I'm *going* to get this tank
straightened out!

Dana