Question for Ingrid - ph problem

RY888 · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

I'm out of ideas on how I can lower the pH of my tank (bare-bottom,
glass, 20 gal, Aquaclear 300 with cycled Ehfisubstrat) to around 7.5
---- My lionhead has chronic finrot problems. My best guess is the pH
(9.3) of my tap is just too high for her. My tap water runs out at 7.5
but balloons upward to over 9 (high carbonates). I thought she might
adjust, but her fins start to shred away again as days go by after
treating with Melafix.

I've tested my tank for nitrite (undetectable), nitrate (5 ppm), ammonia
(undetectable), GH=13, KH=12.

I've tried buffers, pH decreasers but the amount of chemical needed to
lower the pH is so great that the chemical itself causes problems for my
fish. Tried water softening pillows, but I have to repeatedly recharge
to lower the GH.... and it did nothing to lower the pH of course.

I bought an ion-exchange unit (not R/O) that removes the carbonates from
the water (KH=0, GH = nearly zero). I mixed about 8 gal of this water
to tap water to bring the KH down to 5. The pH then stayed at about 7.5
but the ion-exchange water has stuff in it (recharged with muriatic
acid) I believe that's too acidic. The end result is it's no different
than dumping a lot of acid in water. R/O units wouldn't work for me. The
membranes would clog too quickly with my tap being too hard. Tried
Aquarium Pharms Tap Water Purifier, but I exhausted the whole cartridge
with only 8 gallons coming out.

So my question is: Is there a natural way that I can lower the pH of my
tank without dumping in lots of chemicals?

(I tried diluting my tap with Alhambra bottled spring water and that
semed to work well except that I need about 8 gallons of it to mix in my
tank --- it's a bit costly to keep buying it.)

Archived from group: rec>aquaria>freshwater>goldfish

SamB · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 14

Not ingrid but this may help. Here on the west coast (seattle area) Saveway
sells what appears to be RO water for $0.39/gallon in your container. Other
stores may do the same. Some local saltwater fish stores sell saltwater
pretty cheap as well . MTL they would sell dheaply before mixing in the
salt?? Go across town to a friends house and try their water. A different
source would be cheaper than a fix of your water> Back to lurk

"RY888" wrote in message@hotmail.com...
> I'm out of ideas on how I can lower the pH of my tank (bare-bottom,
> glass, 20 gal, Aquaclear 300 with cycled Ehfisubstrat) to around 7.5
> ---- My lionhead has chronic finrot problems. My best guess is the pH
> (9.3) of my tap is just too high for her. My tap water runs out at 7.5
> but balloons upward to over 9 (high carbonates). I thought she might
> adjust, but her fins start to shred away again as days go by after
> treating with Melafix.
>
> I've tested my tank for nitrite (undetectable), nitrate (5 ppm), ammonia
> (undetectable), GH=13, KH=12.
>
> I've tried buffers, pH decreasers but the amount of chemical needed to
> lower the pH is so great that the chemical itself causes problems for my
> fish. Tried water softening pillows, but I have to repeatedly recharge
> to lower the GH.... and it did nothing to lower the pH of course.
>
> I bought an ion-exchange unit (not R/O) that removes the carbonates from
> the water (KH=0, GH = nearly zero). I mixed about 8 gal of this water
> to tap water to bring the KH down to 5. The pH then stayed at about 7.5
> but the ion-exchange water has stuff in it (recharged with muriatic
> acid) I believe that's too acidic. The end result is it's no different
> than dumping a lot of acid in water. R/O units wouldn't work for me. The
> membranes would clog too quickly with my tap being too hard. Tried
> Aquarium Pharms Tap Water Purifier, but I exhausted the whole cartridge
> with only 8 gallons coming out.
>
> So my question is: Is there a natural way that I can lower the pH of my
> tank without dumping in lots of chemicals?
>
> (I tried diluting my tap with Alhambra bottled spring water and that
> semed to work well except that I need about 8 gallons of it to mix in my
> tank --- it's a bit costly to keep buying it.)
>

dr-solo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 1445

what do you have in your BB tank like decorations? if you have good aeration, the
CO2 should not accumulate to that extent. normally water out of the tap can drop
when the CO2 is removed.
has it always moved up to 9?
did you test carbonates in the tap water and then compare that to the tank water?
I will tell you frankly, you can try peat moss to acidify, but it will turn the water
color. Muriatic acid is the only treatment I know to bring pH down. this is done in
an aging tub or vat. the water is run overnight with an airstone, then muriatic
(HCl) acid is added drop wise until the desired pH is reached. in your case shoot for
8.2-8.6 which is fine for GF. HCl is non toxic ... that is the H and Cl are normal
in body fluids, so it isnt like it is going to accumulate to a toxic level or
anything. Ingrid

RY888 wrote:

>I'm out of ideas on how I can lower the pH of my tank (bare-bottom,
>glass, 20 gal, Aquaclear 300 with cycled Ehfisubstrat) to around 7.5
>---- My lionhead has chronic finrot problems. My best guess is the pH
>(9.3) of my tap is just too high for her. My tap water runs out at 7.5
>but balloons upward to over 9 (high carbonates). I thought she might
>adjust, but her fins start to shred away again as days go by after
>treating with Melafix.
>
>I've tested my tank for nitrite (undetectable), nitrate (5 ppm), ammonia
>(undetectable), GH=13, KH=12.
>
>I've tried buffers, pH decreasers but the amount of chemical needed to
>lower the pH is so great that the chemical itself causes problems for my
>fish. Tried water softening pillows, but I have to repeatedly recharge
>to lower the GH.... and it did nothing to lower the pH of course.
>
>I bought an ion-exchange unit (not R/O) that removes the carbonates from
> the water (KH=0, GH = nearly zero). I mixed about 8 gal of this water
>to tap water to bring the KH down to 5. The pH then stayed at about 7.5
>but the ion-exchange water has stuff in it (recharged with muriatic
>acid) I believe that's too acidic. The end result is it's no different
>than dumping a lot of acid in water. R/O units wouldn't work for me. The
>membranes would clog too quickly with my tap being too hard. Tried
>Aquarium Pharms Tap Water Purifier, but I exhausted the whole cartridge
>with only 8 gallons coming out.
>
>So my question is: Is there a natural way that I can lower the pH of my
>tank without dumping in lots of chemicals?
>
>(I tried diluting my tap with Alhambra bottled spring water and that
>semed to work well except that I need about 8 gallons of it to mix in my
>tank --- it's a bit costly to keep buying it.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

RY888 · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

On 6/26/03 6:10 PM, dr-solo@wi.rr.xx.com wrote:

> what do you have in your BB tank like decorations?

No decorations. Just one 6" airstone.

> if you have good aeration, the CO2 should not accumulate to that extent.
normally water out of the tap can drop
> when the CO2 is removed.
> has it always moved up to 9?

Yes. I tested the tap by filling a 5 gallon bucket and leaving it
overnight.

> did you test carbonates in the tap water and then compare that to the tank water?

Yes. The KH is identical.

> I will tell you frankly, you can try peat moss to acidify, but it will turn the water
> color. Muriatic acid is the only treatment I know to bring pH down. this is done in
> an aging tub or vat. the water is run overnight with an airstone, then muriatic
> (HCl) acid is added drop wise until the desired pH is reached. in your case shoot for
> 8.2-8.6 which is fine for GF. HCl is non toxic ... that is the H and Cl are normal
> in body fluids, so it isnt like it is going to accumulate to a toxic level or
> anything. Ingrid

I suppose I can try getting water from my ion-exchange unit again and
use maybe less of it to dilute my tap.

> RY888 wrote:
>
>>I'm out of ideas on how I can lower the pH of my tank (bare-bottom,
>>glass, 20 gal, Aquaclear 300 with cycled Ehfisubstrat) to around 7.5
>>---- My lionhead has chronic finrot problems. My best guess is the pH
>>(9.3) of my tap is just too high for her. My tap water runs out at 7.5
>>but balloons upward to over 9 (high carbonates). I thought she might
>>adjust, but her fins start to shred away again as days go by after
>>treating with Melafix.
>>
>>I've tested my tank for nitrite (undetectable), nitrate (5 ppm), ammonia
>>(undetectable), GH=13, KH=12.
>>
>>I've tried buffers, pH decreasers but the amount of chemical needed to
>>lower the pH is so great that the chemical itself causes problems for my
>>fish. Tried water softening pillows, but I have to repeatedly recharge
>>to lower the GH.... and it did nothing to lower the pH of course.
>>
>>I bought an ion-exchange unit (not R/O) that removes the carbonates from
>> the water (KH=0, GH = nearly zero). I mixed about 8 gal of this water
>>to tap water to bring the KH down to 5. The pH then stayed at about 7.5
>>but the ion-exchange water has stuff in it (recharged with muriatic
>>acid) I believe that's too acidic. The end result is it's no different
>>than dumping a lot of acid in water. R/O units wouldn't work for me. The
>>membranes would clog too quickly with my tap being too hard. Tried
>>Aquarium Pharms Tap Water Purifier, but I exhausted the whole cartridge
>>with only 8 gallons coming out.
>>
>>So my question is: Is there a natural way that I can lower the pH of my
>>tank without dumping in lots of chemicals?
>>
>>(I tried diluting my tap with Alhambra bottled spring water and that
>>semed to work well except that I need about 8 gallons of it to mix in my
>>tank --- it's a bit costly to keep buying it.)
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
> http://puregold.aquaria.net/
> www.drsolo.com
> Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

RY888 · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

On 6/26/03 4:36 PM, SamB wrote:

> Not ingrid but this may help. Here on the west coast (seattle area) Saveway
> sells what appears to be RO water for $0.39/gallon in your container. Other
> stores may do the same. Some local saltwater fish stores sell saltwater
> pretty cheap as well . MTL they would sell dheaply before mixing in the
> salt?? Go across town to a friends house and try their water. A different
> source would be cheaper than a fix of your water> Back to lurk

Thanks. I'll look into it. Safeway's down the block.