Post facts

Tynk · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 200

There are many different opnions between hobbyists, that's obvious.
However, when new information comes out it's always better to stay
current and learn about it.
Sadly, some hobbyists are afraid of these changes and make a lot of
noise trashing them, but aren't adding any facts to back up what they
claim.

Here's just a few links explaining that *nitrospira bacteria*
containing products are the ones that work, and how it's not
nitrobacter bacteria that's first to show up, like once thought.

http://ezinearticles.com/?A-Short-Introduction-to-the-Cycling-Process-and-Different-Cycling-Methods&id=308136

http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/misc/PPN_4pgReprint.pdf

http://www.marineland.com/science/biospira/biospira_timeline.asp

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=953

http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.micro.55.1.485?cookieSet=1&journalCode=micro

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquarium/cycling.php

http://members.aol.com/nwwise01/Nitrospira.html

Instead of just posting personal opinions (made out of ignorance)
against certain products, add some proof to back up what you claim.
If you can't, don't bother replying.
Instead, take the time to research this information and learn from it.

Archived from group: rec>aquaria>freshwater>misc

Tynk · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 200

On Jan 4, 3:39�pm, Tynk <----- Is an imposter.
Tynk is the real Tynk.

There are many different opnions between hobbyists, that's obvious.
However, when new information comes out it's always better to stay
current and learn about it.
Sadly, some hobbyists are afraid of these changes and make a lot of
noise trashing them, but aren't adding any facts to back up what they
claim.

Here's just a few links explaining that *nitrospira bacteria*
containing products are the ones that work, and how it's not
nitrobacter bacteria that's first to show up, like once thought.

http://ezinearticles.com/?A-Short-Introduction-to-the-Cycling-Process...

http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/misc/PPN_4pgReprint.pdf

http://www.marineland.com/science/biospira/biospira_timeline.asp

http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=953

http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.micro.55....

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquarium/cycling.php

http://members.aol.com/nwwise01/Nitrospira.html

Instead of just posting personal opinions (made out of ignorance)
against certain products, add some proof to back up what you claim.
If you can't, don't bother replying.
Instead, take the time to research this information and learn from it.

Tynk · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 200

On Jan 8, 9:59�am, Tynk IMPOSTER Tynk

Roy,
I haven't posted for a few days.
You haven't posted anything on this board for 4 days.
The very hour I post something, you pounce on me.

You are a fraud.

Tynk · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 200

On Jan 8, 10:05�am, Tynk <---IMPOSTER TYNK

Instead of just posting personal opinions (made out of ignorance)
against certain products, add some proof to back up what you claim.

Tynk · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 200

On Jan 8, 10:05�am, Tynk <---------IMPOSTER TYNK

Randy Webb · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 21

Tynk said the following on 1/4/2008 10:19 AM:
> There are many different opnions between hobbyists, that's obvious.

That is true with just about any hobby, not limited to aquariums.

> However, when new information comes out it's always better to stay
> current and learn about it.

Whether you think it is good or bad. But, if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

> Sadly, some hobbyists are afraid of these changes and make a lot of
> noise trashing them, but aren't adding any facts to back up what they
> claim.

Using websites to back up claims isn't something I look up to. My
background/work is computer related and 99% of what you can find on the
web about it is complete, utter, useless junk.

> Here's just a few links explaining that *nitrospira bacteria*
> containing products are the ones that work, and how it's not
> nitrobacter bacteria that's first to show up, like once thought.
>
>
> http://ezinearticles.com/?A-Short-Introduction-to-the-Cycling-Process-and-Different-Cycling-Methods&id=308136

That one is written by a person who works for a retailer trying to sell
the product. Of course they are going to want you to try it.

> http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/misc/PPN_4pgReprint.pdf

I don't do PDF files so I can't comment on that one.

I stopped trying to view the links after that.

> http://www.marineland.com/science/biospira/biospira_timeline.asp
>
> http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=953
>
> http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.micro.55.1.485?cookieSet=1&journalCode=micro
>
> http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquarium/cycling.php
>
> http://members.aol.com/nwwise01/Nitrospira.html

I don't trust 99% of what is found on AOL members personal space. I
spent 10 years teaching people how to make webpages on AOL so I have a
slanted/skewed view of them (even my own pages on AOL).

> Instead of just posting personal opinions (made out of ignorance)
> against certain products, add some proof to back up what you claim.
> If you can't, don't bother replying.

Your first mistake would be to blanket assume a statement is made out of
ignorance.

But, let me ask you something. You don't want anybody to post personal
opinions unless they can "add some proof". Fine. Let me give you an
example then.

My wife, when I met her, had two fish. A goldfish and a plecostomus in a
30 gallon tank. Both fish were 8 years old. The only chemicals that she
had *ever* put in that tank is what came with it when she bought it.
When the additives ran out, she stopped using them. The water in that
tank was pure tap water. When the tank got low, due to evaporation, she
would simply top it off with tap water - untreated. The only equipment
on the tank was the HOB filter that came with the tank (in a kit), the
lights, and an air pump. When she moved the tank to my house, she put
the two fish in a two gallon trash can full of tank water. Took
everything else to my house, set it up, pulled a water hose in from the
front yard, filled the tank up, put her two fish back in it and plugged
the filter and air pump back up. No additives what so ever. Those two
fish lived another 2 years. What finally killed them was she put them in
my non-cholorinated swordtail tank and both were dead in two days.

Another example? Water changes. The 55 gallon tank that I am trying,
futilely, to grow plants in, was set up for 2 years and not once did I
*ever* do a water change. The only thing I ever did was dechlorinate my
tap water and fill it back up from evaporation.

Another example? Stocking levels. I had a 10 gallon tank that had more
fish in it than a 30 gallon should have in it. The LFS where I was
shopping at the time believed I had a 55 gallon tank and drove 40 miles
to actually see it because he didn't believe that many fish could live
in a 10 gallon tank.

Now, nowhere on the web will you find anybody that will tell you that it
will work. I wouldn't even recommend any of that to a new person to the
hobby. But, I know it can be done because I have seen and done it myself.

To simply tell people "Don't post your opinions if you can't provide a
website source to back it up" is plain wrong.

> Instead, take the time to research this information and learn from it.

I read about half of them, none of them really taught me anything other
than a way to try to short circuit something that I have done for 20
years without knowing what they were trying to tell me.

--
Randy
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

Tynk · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 200

On Jan 9, 11:55�pm, Randy Webb wrote:
> Tynk said the following on 1/4/2008 10:19 AM:
>
> > There are many different opnions between hobbyists, that's obvious.
>
> That is true with just about any hobby, not limited to aquariums.
>
> > However, when new information comes out it's always better to stay
> > current and learn about it.
>
> Whether you think it is good or bad. But, if it isn't broke, don't fix it.
>
> > Sadly, some hobbyists are afraid of these changes and make a lot of
> > noise trashing them, but aren't adding any facts to back up what they
> > claim.
>
> Using websites to back up claims isn't something I look up to. My
> background/work is computer related and 99% of what you can find on the
> web about it is complete, utter, useless junk.
>
> > Here's just a few links explaining that *nitrospira bacteria*
> > containing products are the ones that work, and how it's not
> > nitrobacter bacteria that's first to show up, like once thought.
>
> >http://ezinearticles.com/?A-Short-Introduction-to-the-Cycling-Process...
>
> That one is written by a person who works for a retailer trying to sell
> the product. Of course they are going to want you to try it.
>
> >http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/misc/PPN_4pgReprint.pdf
>
> I don't do PDF files so I can't comment on that one.
>
> I stopped trying to view the links after that.
>
> >http://www.marineland.com/science/biospira/biospira_timeline.asp
>
> >http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=953
>
> >http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.micro.55....
>
> >http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquarium/cycling.php
>
> >http://members.aol.com/nwwise01/Nitrospira.html
>
> I don't trust 99% of what is found on AOL members personal space. I
> spent 10 years teaching people how to make webpages on AOL so I have a
> slanted/skewed view of them (even my own pages on AOL).
>
> > Instead of just posting personal opinions (made out of ignorance)
> > against certain products, add some proof to back up what you claim.
> > If you can't, don't bother replying.
>
> Your first mistake would be to blanket assume a statement is made out of
> ignorance.
>
> But, let me ask you something. You don't want anybody to post personal
> opinions unless they can "add some proof". Fine. Let me give you an
> example then.
>
> My wife, when I met her, had two fish. A goldfish and a plecostomus in a
> 30 gallon tank. Both fish were 8 years old. The only chemicals that she
> had *ever* put in that tank is what came with it when she bought it.
> When the additives ran out, she stopped using them. The water in that
> tank was pure tap water. When the tank got low, due to evaporation, she
> would simply top it off with tap water - untreated. The only equipment
> on the tank was the HOB filter that came with the tank (in a kit), the
> lights, and an air pump. When she moved the tank to my house, she put
> the two fish in a two gallon trash can full of tank water. Took
> everything else to my house, set it up, pulled a water hose in from the
> front yard, filled the tank up, put her two fish back in it and plugged
> the filter and air pump back up. No additives what so ever. Those two
> fish lived another 2 years. What finally killed them was she put them in
> my non-cholorinated swordtail tank and both were dead in two days.
>
> Another example? Water changes. The 55 gallon tank that I am trying,
> futilely, to grow plants in, was set up for 2 years and not once did I
> *ever* do a water change. The only thing I ever did was dechlorinate my
> tap water and fill it back up from evaporation.
>
> Another example? Stocking levels. I had a 10 gallon tank that had more
> fish in it than a 30 gallon should have in it. The LFS where I was
> shopping at the time believed I had a 55 gallon tank and drove 40 miles
> to actually see it because he didn't believe that many fish could live
> in a 10 gallon tank.
>
> Now, nowhere on the web will you find anybody that will tell you that it
> will work. I wouldn't even recommend any of that to a new person to the
> hobby. But, I know it can be done because I have seen and done it myself.
>
> To simply tell people "Don't post your opinions if you can't provide a
> website source to back it up" is plain wrong.
>
> > Instead, take the time to research this information and learn from it.
>
> I read about half of them, none of them really taught me anything other
> than a way to try to short circuit something that I have done for 20
> years without knowing what they were trying to tell me.
>
> --
> Randy
> Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

Tynk · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 200

On Jan 9, 11:55�pm, Randy Webb wrote:

>
> > However, when new information comes out it's always better to stay
> > current and learn about it.
>
> Whether you think it is good or bad. But, if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

The "if it isn't broke don't fix it" rountine is exactly why I made
this thread.
There is current information out there that was not known 20 yrs ago
(about how and what a tank cycles with).
This is why I said "it's better to stay current".
When you take certain sentences out of context, it can seem different.

> > Sadly, some hobbyists are afraid of these changes and make a lot of
> > noise trashing them, but aren't adding any facts to back up what they
> > claim.
>
> Using websites to back up claims isn't something I look up to. My
> background/work is computer related and 99% of what you can find on the
> web about it is complete, utter, useless junk.
>
This is too much of a general statement. There's also a lot of good
information on the web as well.

> > Here's just a few links explaining that *nitrospira bacteria*
> > containing products are the ones that work, and how it's not
> > nitrobacter bacteria that's first to show up, like once thought.
>
> >http://ezinearticles.com/?A-Short-Introduction-to-the-Cycling-Process...
>
> That one is written by a person who works for a retailer trying to sell
> the product. Of course they are going to want you to try it.

Ok..forget about the product, read the information.
If you would have read quickly through them all, you would have found
that they all mention how the *current* information is not what it
once was thought.
I was simply leaving several examples of what science has learned
recently.
There were a couple I left out because of one incorrect phrase in both
of them.
They both mentioned another way to cycle a tank was by "filter
squeezings". This goes directly against the current information.
The bacteria you want added into a new tank is stuck like glue. Simply
squeezing muck into a new tank does nothing but add gunk, and dirty up
a clean tank.

>
> >http://www.marineland.com/products/mllabs/misc/PPN_4pgReprint.pdf
>
> I don't do PDF files so I can't comment on that one.
>
> I stopped trying to view the links after that.
>
> >http://www.marineland.com/science/biospira/biospira_timeline.asp
>
> >http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/item.php?news=953
>
> >http://arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.micro.55....
>
> >http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquarium/cycling.php
>
> >http://members.aol.com/nwwise01/Nitrospira.html

>
> I don't trust 99% of what is found on AOL members personal space. I
> spent 10 years teaching people how to make webpages on AOL so I have a
> slanted/skewed view of them (even my own pages on AOL).

This really has nothing to do with the actual information that was
given, so it really isn't necessary to add your person comments about
aol member web pages.
Besides, according to you, you didn't even read it.

>
> > Instead of just posting personal opinions (made out of ignorance)
> > against certain products, add some proof to back up what you claim.
> > If you can't, don't bother replying.
>
> Your first mistake would be to blanket assume a statement is made out of
> ignorance.

My comment was to Roy (the imposter Tynk). He has been posting his
personal opinions on the couple of bacteria starters that do have the
correct bacteria in them.
When I said *instead of posting personal opinions made out of
ignorance*, and to post some facts....was because of just that.
He's posting his personal opinions about prodcuts to which he is
completely ignorant of.
It wasn't a blanket statement like you are taking it as.
I guess I should have added it was a side comment to Roy.

>
> But, let me ask you something. You don't want anybody to post personal
> opinions unless they can "add some proof". Fine. Let me give you an
> example then.

No no no........you missed my point.
I was speaking of Bio Spira and Bactinettes.

> To simply tell people "Don't post your opinions if you can't provide a
> website source to back it up" is plain wrong.

I never said that. You are quoting something I never said.

Here's what I originally wrote:

********There are many different opnions between hobbyists, that's
obvious.
However, when new information comes out it's always better to stay
current and learn about it.
Sadly, some hobbyists are afraid of these changes and make a lot of
noise trashing them, but aren't adding any facts to back up what they
claim.

Here's just a few links explaining that *nitrospira bacteria*
containing products are the ones that work, and how it's not
nitrobacter bacteria that's first to show up, like once thought.
*****************

Randy you took what I said about comments being made out of ignorance
for BioSpira (and Bactinettes) and changed it into blanket statement
saying And I quote you...."To simply tell people "Don't post your
opinions if you can't provide a
website source to back it up"..." That's not what I said, nor what I
meant.
This thread was about the type of bacteria that does the job, and the
bacteria starters that have the right type in them.
There is proof out there backing this up.
There's also proof about the current facts.
The hobby has changed recently with this new information.
Not just regarding the products, but the bacteria it's self and how to
cycle a tank now without using (harming) fish.
That's why the "if it's not broke don't fix it" statement doesn't
apply here.

>
> > Instead, take the time to research this information and learn from it.
>
> I read about half of them, none of them really taught me anything other
> than a way to try to short circuit something that I have done for 20
> years without knowing what they were trying to tell me.

According to your post, you read 2 out of 7.
If that is what you got out of them, you didn't actually read the 2
you bothered with.

Tynk · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 200

On Jan 10, 1:03�pm, Tynk <---------IMPOSTER TYNK

Cross post deleted (*alt.callahans)

Maybe the imposter tynk can grow up and stop this.