Porcelain Tiles in a tank?

Charles Spitzer · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 42

clay. it's not encased at all because the tiles are only glazed on top of
porcelain.

neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes that
aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals from
either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to find out
what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know since
tiles typically don't have a msds.

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message@corp.supernews.com...
> Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor) are
> safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
> itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
kind
> of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
> well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm hoping
to
> use these tiles for a background.
>
> Thanks,
> Harry
>
>

Archived from group: rec>aquaria>freshwater>misc

Charles Spitzer · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 42

"james" wrote in message$es.107@fed1read02...
> In article ,
> Charles Spitzer wrote:
>
> >neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes that
> >aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals from
> >either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to find
out
> >what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know since
> >tiles typically don't have a msds.
>
> Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is just
> asking for litigation...

not really. also, OP didn't state that they were kitchen tiles. could be
floor, bathroom, pool, etc. incidental contact with lead bearing glazes for
kitchen tiles wouldn't be bad either. the OP is talking about leaving them
inside the tank, which is full contact forever.

they allow lead crystal to be used for decanters as long as you don't store
wine in them. long term contact with lead crystal leaches out the lead into
the wine. it's all a matter of how long the contact is.

Charles Spitzer · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 42

porcelain is clay. it is a certain type of clay fired at a higher than
normal temperature.

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message@corp.supernews.com...
> Actually it's not clay (unless porcelain is a clay substance?), it's the
> same color pattern all the way through the tile (not just glazed on top).
> They are the ones designed for outside/inside use and heavy traffic, so
you
> could scratch half the tile away and it would still look normal since it's
> all the same color pattern throughout.
>
> Harry
>
> "Charles Spitzer" wrote in message
> $5rf$1@transfer. .com...
> > clay. it's not encased at all because the tiles are only glazed on top
of
> > porcelain.
> >
> > neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes that
> > aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals
from
> > either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to find
out
> > what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know
since
> > tiles typically don't have a msds.
> >
> > "Harry Muscle" wrote in message
> > @corp.supernews.com...
> > > Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor)
are
> > > safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
> > porcelain
> > > itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
> > kind
> > > of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
> > pretty
> > > well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm
hoping
> > to
> > > use these tiles for a background.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Harry
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Charles Spitzer · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 42

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message@corp.supernews.com...
> "Charles Spitzer" wrote in message
> $677$1@transfer. .com...
> >
> > "james" wrote in message
> > $es.107@fed1read02...
> > > In article ,
> > > Charles Spitzer wrote:
> > >
> > > >neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes
> that
> > > >aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals
> from
> > > >either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to
find
> > out
> > > >what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know
> since
> > > >tiles typically don't have a msds.
> > >
> > > Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is just
> > > asking for litigation...
> >
> > not really. also, OP didn't state that they were kitchen tiles. could be
> > floor, bathroom, , etc. incidental contact with lead bearing glazes
> for
> > kitchen tiles wouldn't be ither. the OP is talking about leaving
them
> > inside the tank, which is full contact forever.
> >
> > they allow lead crystal to be used for decanters as long as you don't
> store
> > wine in them. long term contact with lead crystal leaches out the lead
> into
> > the wine. it's all a matter of how long the contact is.
> >
> >
>
> But what if the tile doesn't have a glaze on it? What if it's solid
> porcelain, with the color pattern embedded throughout the whole tile?
>
> Thanks,
> Harry
>

then it depends upon what is in the clay, which comes from the ground and
has LOTS of different metals in it, or could even be a blend of different
clays from different regions of the world. for sure, the tile manufacturer
won't know that, or at least, they won't tell. i've never seen an msds on
tile.

Charles Spitzer · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 42

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message@corp.supernews.com...
> "Charles Spitzer" wrote in message
> $6bc$1@transfer. .com...
> >
> > "Harry Muscle" wrote in message
> > @corp.supernews.com...
> > > "Charles Spitzer" wrote in message
> > > $677$1@transfer. .com...
> > > >
> > > > "james" wrote in message
> > > > $es.107@fed1read02...
> > > > > In article ,
> > > > > Charles Spitzer wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of
glazes
> > > that
> > > > > >aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach
> metals
> > > from
> > > > > >either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to
> > find
> > > > out
> > > > > >what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't
know
> > > since
> > > > > >tiles typically don't have a msds.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is
just
> > > > > asking for litigation...
> > > >
> > > > not really. also, OP didn't state that they were kitchen tiles.
could
> be
> > > > floor, bathroom, , etc. incidental contact with lead bearing
> glazes
> > > for
> > > > kitchen tiles wouldn't be ither. the OP is talking about
leaving
> > them
> > > > inside the tank, which is full contact forever.
> > > >
> > > > they allow lead crystal to be used for decanters as long as you
don't
> > > store
> > > > wine in them. long term contact with lead crystal leaches out the
lead
> > > into
> > > > the wine. it's all a matter of how long the contact is.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > But what if the tile doesn't have a glaze on it? What if it's solid
> > > porcelain, with the color pattern embedded throughout the whole tile?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Harry
> > >
> >
> > then it depends upon what is in the clay, which comes from the ground
and
> > has LOTS of different metals in it, or could even be a blend of
different
> > clays from different regions of the world. for sure, the tile
manufacturer
> > won't know that, or at least, they won't tell. i've never seen an msds
on
> > tile.
> >
> >
>
> So in other words, unless I stick it in the tank and wait for my fish to
> die, there is no way for me to find out if it's going to cause any
problems.

chances are it's safe. however, how much of a betting person are you? you
might try a piece of tile in a test tank with 1 fish and some inverts for 6
months. if there's no affect, it's probably safe. also water changes would
decrease the amount of toxins, if any.

> Bummer. Maybe I should stick with using slate tiles.

isn't slate shale? a lot of shale comes from oil bearing rocks.

> Thanks for the info,
> Harry
>
> P.S. Are porcelain sinks, toilets, etc. glazed? Or are they smooth and
> water repellent naturally?

yes. if you turn your toilet upside down, you'd see unglazed places. maybe
the inside of the tank lid too. the item is made in a mold, fired and
cooled, the glaze is sprayed on, then fired again at a higher temp.

Charles Spitzer · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 42

"Wm Hopkins" wrote in message$k05.313@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Harry Muscle" wrote in message
> @corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > So in other words, unless I stick it in the tank and wait for my fish to
> > die, there is no way for me to find out if it's going to cause any
> problems.
> > Bummer. Maybe I should stick with using slate tiles.
> >
> > Thanks for the info,
> > Harry
> >
> > P.S. Are porcelain sinks, toilets, etc. glazed? Or are they smooth and
> > water repellent naturally?
> >
> >
>
> You may be talking two different products here. A porcelain sink (kit.) or
> tub etc., is cast iron or metal with a glaze baked on. Pedestal Lavatories
> (bath) or toilets are usually vitreous china with a glaze. Tile OTOH can
be
> made from just about anything these days - concrete impregnated fiber to
> recycled glass. Most manufacturers will tell you what they use but
> contacting them can be interesting.
>

tubs and some kitchen sinks are usually porcelain on metal. toilets and
bathroom sinks are usually porcelain on some clay body that's been fired to
porcelain temps. the clay body could be a porcelain or not. if you go into a
pottery supply place, they might have 25 different clay bodies in 25 lb
blocks, some of which are classified as a porcelain.

Harry Muscle · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 50

Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor) are
safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the porcelain
itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what kind
of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be pretty
well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm hoping to
use these tiles for a background.

Thanks,
Harry

Andy Hill · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 10

"Harry Muscle" wrote:
>Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor) are
>safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the porcelain
>itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what kind
>of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be pretty
>well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm hoping to
>use these tiles for a background.
>
It's going to be very dependent on the glaze. Back when I did lots of
pottery, I had to be pretty picky about which glazes I could use for food
containers (especially pitchers). Lots of the prettier colors used heavy
metals as the pigments -- not good to ingest. If you don't know the contents
of the glaze, you're living on the edge.

Harry Muscle · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 50

Actually it's not clay (unless porcelain is a clay substance?), it's the
same color pattern all the way through the tile (not just glazed on top).
They are the ones designed for outside/inside use and heavy traffic, so you
could scratch half the tile away and it would still look normal since it's
all the same color pattern throughout.

Harry

"Charles Spitzer" wrote in message$5rf$1@transfer. .com...
> clay. it's not encased at all because the tiles are only glazed on top of
> porcelain.
>
> neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes that
> aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals from
> either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to find out
> what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know since
> tiles typically don't have a msds.
>
> "Harry Muscle" wrote in message
> @corp.supernews.com...
> > Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor) are
> > safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
> porcelain
> > itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
> kind
> > of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
> pretty
> > well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm hoping
> to
> > use these tiles for a background.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Harry
> >
> >
>
>

Paulo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 18

A way to test them is to put some lemon drops on the surface of the tile...
Also, u can find different kind of tiles, porcelain is a high temperature
clay, and then should be a lot more resistant to anything.

--
Paulo
"james" wrote in message$es.107@fed1read02...
> In article ,
> Charles Spitzer wrote:
>
> >neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes that
> >aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals from
> >either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to find
out
> >what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know since
> >tiles typically don't have a msds.
>
> Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is just
> asking for litigation...
>

Harry Muscle · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 50

"Charles Spitzer" wrote in message$677$1@transfer. .com...
>
> "james" wrote in message
> $es.107@fed1read02...
> > In article ,
> > Charles Spitzer wrote:
> >
> > >neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes
that
> > >aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals
from
> > >either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to find
> out
> > >what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know
since
> > >tiles typically don't have a msds.
> >
> > Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is just
> > asking for litigation...
>
> not really. also, OP didn't state that they were kitchen tiles. could be
> floor, bathroom, , etc. incidental contact with lead bearing glazes
for
> kitchen tiles wouldn't be ither. the OP is talking about leaving them
> inside the tank, which is full contact forever.
>
> they allow lead crystal to be used for decanters as long as you don't
store
> wine in them. long term contact with lead crystal leaches out the lead
into
> the wine. it's all a matter of how long the contact is.
>
>

But what if the tile doesn't have a glaze on it? What if it's solid
porcelain, with the color pattern embedded throughout the whole tile?

Thanks,
Harry

Harry Muscle · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 50

"Charles Spitzer" wrote in message$6bc$1@transfer. .com...
>
> "Harry Muscle" wrote in message
> @corp.supernews.com...
> > "Charles Spitzer" wrote in message
> > $677$1@transfer. .com...
> > >
> > > "james" wrote in message
> > > $es.107@fed1read02...
> > > > In article ,
> > > > Charles Spitzer wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes
> > that
> > > > >aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach
metals
> > from
> > > > >either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to
> find
> > > out
> > > > >what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know
> > since
> > > > >tiles typically don't have a msds.
> > > >
> > > > Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is just
> > > > asking for litigation...
> > >
> > > not really. also, OP didn't state that they were kitchen tiles. could
be
> > > floor, bathroom, , etc. incidental contact with lead bearing
glazes
> > for
> > > kitchen tiles wouldn't be ither. the OP is talking about leaving
> them
> > > inside the tank, which is full contact forever.
> > >
> > > they allow lead crystal to be used for decanters as long as you don't
> > store
> > > wine in them. long term contact with lead crystal leaches out the lead
> > into
> > > the wine. it's all a matter of how long the contact is.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > But what if the tile doesn't have a glaze on it? What if it's solid
> > porcelain, with the color pattern embedded throughout the whole tile?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Harry
> >
>
> then it depends upon what is in the clay, which comes from the ground and
> has LOTS of different metals in it, or could even be a blend of different
> clays from different regions of the world. for sure, the tile manufacturer
> won't know that, or at least, they won't tell. i've never seen an msds on
> tile.
>
>

So in other words, unless I stick it in the tank and wait for my fish to
die, there is no way for me to find out if it's going to cause any problems.
Bummer. Maybe I should stick with using slate tiles.

Thanks for the info,
Harry

P.S. Are porcelain sinks, toilets, etc. glazed? Or are they smooth and
water repellent naturally?

Lydia · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 6

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message@corp.supernews.com...
> Anybody know if porcelain tiles (like the ones that go on the floor) are
> safe in an aquarium. Sinks and such are made of porcelain, so the
porcelain
> itself is fine, but the tiles are colored porcelain. Anyone know what
kind
> of chemicals they use to color porcelain, and if this stuff would be
pretty
> well encased inside the porcelain so none of it leaches out? I'm hoping
to
> use these tiles for a background.
>
> Thanks,
> Harry
>
>

Totally inexperienced suggestion here, but could you secure the tiles
together with a piece of backing like fabric or thin wood and hang that on
the back of the tank on the outside? Maybe that doesn't give the desired
effect.

Just a thought.

james · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

In article ,
Charles Spitzer wrote:

>neither the glaze nor the tile may be safe. there's a lot of glazes that
>aren't food safe (contain lead, cadmium, etc) and could leach metals from
>either a basic or acid solution in contact with it. you'd have to find out
>what is in them from the manufacturer, and they probably don't know since
>tiles typically don't have a msds.

Anybody selling a kitchen tile laced with toxic heavy metals is just
asking for litigation...

Wm Hopkins · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 5

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message@corp.supernews.com...
>
> So in other words, unless I stick it in the tank and wait for my fish to
> die, there is no way for me to find out if it's going to cause any
problems.
> Bummer. Maybe I should stick with using slate tiles.
>
> Thanks for the info,
> Harry
>
> P.S. Are porcelain sinks, toilets, etc. glazed? Or are they smooth and
> water repellent naturally?
>
>

You may be talking two different products here. A porcelain sink (kit.) or
tub etc., is cast iron or metal with a glaze baked on. Pedestal Lavatories
(bath) or toilets are usually vitreous china with a glaze. Tile OTOH can be
made from just about anything these days - concrete impregnated fiber to
recycled glass. Most manufacturers will tell you what they use but
contacting them can be interesting.