Lowering ph

Animal · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

I have a problem,(I guess if I didn't I wouldn't be asking a
question!),anyways,I have a 90 gall heavily planted freshwater community
tank that's been set up for 10 years.Because I've always had a mild amount
of algae,I was doing large (70 %)water changes weekly to try to eliminate
the algae, but in the last 6 months it's gotten worse.(I think it's
cyanobacteria)I don't think I over feed or the tanks over populated.
I started adding KNO3(potassium nitrate)to increase the nitrate and have
reduced the water change to 5 gallons a week and it seems to work but now
I've noticed the ph has risen to above 8!.The tap water is about 7+/- .To
confuse matters even more,I also have a well established 50 gall that I
haven't changed my normal routine(water change,feeding ,fishload,ect...all
the same as usual)and the ph in that tank is also over 8.

So my questions are would KNO3 raise the ph?
If it's not the KNO3 what could it be?
What is the best way to lower it and keep it down safely?

Archived from group: alt>aquaria

Koi-Lo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 199

"Animal" wrote in message $fd.34825@read2.cgocable.net...
>I have a problem,(I guess if I didn't I wouldn't be asking a
>question!),anyways,I have a 90 gall heavily planted freshwater community
>tank that's been set up for 10 years.Because I've always had a mild amount
>of algae,I was doing large (70 %)water changes weekly to try to eliminate
>the algae, but in the last 6 months it's gotten worse.(I think it's
>cyanobacteria)I don't think I over feed or the tanks over populated.
> I started adding KNO3(potassium nitrate)to increase the nitrate and have
> reduced the water change to 5 gallons a week and it seems to work but now
> I've noticed the ph has risen to above 8!.The tap water is about 7+/- .To
> confuse matters even more,I also have a well established 50 gall that I
> haven't changed my normal routine(water change,feeding ,fishload,ect...all
> the same as usual)and the ph in that tank is also over 8.
>
>
> So my questions are would KNO3 raise the ph?
> If it's not the KNO3 what could it be?
> What is the best way to lower it and keep it down safely?
============================
Using chemicals to lower it causes "bounce" and that's not good for your
fish. If you're fish are healthy and doing well I wouldn't mess with the
PH. It's a lot harder to lower it than raise it. The plants may be raising
it in their need for carbon. Are you using Flourish Excel or a CO2
diffuser? You could call your water company and ask if they changed
anything.

You haven't added decorative shells or something else that can raise the PH
have you?
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at: http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~ } ~~~ } ~~~ }

netDenizen · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 19

Animal wrote:
> I have a problem,(I guess if I didn't I wouldn't be asking a
> question!),anyways,I have a 90 gall heavily planted freshwater community
> tank that's been set up for 10 years.Because I've always had a mild amount
> of algae,I was doing large (70 %)water changes weekly to try to eliminate
> the algae, but in the last 6 months it's gotten worse.(I think it's
> cyanobacteria)I don't think I over feed or the tanks over populated.
> I started adding KNO3(potassium nitrate)to increase the nitrate and have
> reduced the water change to 5 gallons a week and it seems to work but now
> I've noticed the ph has risen to above 8!.The tap water is about 7+/- .To
> confuse matters even more,I also have a well established 50 gall that I
> haven't changed my normal routine(water change,feeding ,fishload,ect...all
> the same as usual)and the ph in that tank is also over 8.
>
>
> So my questions are would KNO3 raise the ph?
> If it's not the KNO3 what could it be?
> What is the best way to lower it and keep it down safely?
>
>
>

Try checking your pH in the morning, before the lights go on. If your
water is at all hard, the pH may rise during the day due to action of
the plants using carbon, thus reducing carbonic acid content of the
water. With KNO3 your plants will grow more and the effect may be more
pronounced. It's perfectly ok, although use of CO2 injection may
counteract the effect, I think.

I'd increase the water changes though. Tom Barr recommends big water
changes such as 50% weekly, and KNO3 addition etc. With your tiny water
changes the water may be becoming more hard due to evaporation...

Can't explain your 50 gal tank, though Smile

.

Finally, others have explained that you should let a glass of tapwater
stand for 24 hours before testing pH, because it may change due to
outgassing etc.

muddyfox · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 22

Our water is the same. Measured straight from the tap it is 7.0.
After 24hours it is up to 8.0.

Muddy

Koi-Lo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 199

"netDenizen" wrote in message $pZ3.614348@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Finally, others have explained that you should let a glass of tapwater
> stand for 24 hours before testing pH, because it may change due to
> outgassing etc.
=================
Ours does. It goes from 7.2 to as high as 7.6 after several hours.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ } ~~~ } ~~~ }

Dale Henderson · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

"Koi-Lo" writes:

> "netDenizen" wrote in message
> $pZ3.614348@news20.bellglobal.com...
> > Finally, others have explained that you should let a glass of
> > tapwater stand for 24 hours before testing pH, because it may change
> > due to outgassing etc.
> =================
> Ours does. It goes from 7.2 to as high as 7.6 after several hours.

I got you beat. My comes out of the tap at 7.0. But if I run an
airstone in it for an hour it goes over 8.

Koi-Lo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 199

Moments before spontaneously combusting at
was heard opining:

> "Koi-Lo" writes:
>
>> "netDenizen" wrote in message
>> $pZ3.614348@news20.bellglobal.com...
>>> Finally, others have explained that you should let a glass of
>>> tapwater stand for 24 hours before testing pH, because it may change
>>> due to outgassing etc.
>> =================
>> Ours does. It goes from 7.2 to as high as 7.6 after several hours.
>
>
> I got you beat. My comes out of the tap at 7.0. But if I run an
> airstone in it for an hour it goes over 8.
===========
They run CO2 gas in the lines to help keep scale down. At least that's what
I was told.
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ } ~~~ } ~~~ }

Dale Henderson · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

"Koi-Lo" writes:

> Moments before spontaneously combusting at
> was heard opining:
>
> > "Koi-Lo" writes:
> >
> >> "netDenizen" wrote in message
> >> $pZ3.614348@news20.bellglobal.com...
> >>> Finally, others have explained that you should let a glass of
> >>> tapwater stand for 24 hours before testing pH, because it may change
> >>> due to outgassing etc.
> >> =================
> >> Ours does. It goes from 7.2 to as high as 7.6 after several hours.
> >
> >
> > I got you beat. My comes out of the tap at 7.0. But if I run an
> > airstone in it for an hour it goes over 8.
> ===========
> They run CO2 gas in the lines to help keep scale down. At least
> that's what I was told.

I have a well. Well water is notorious for being full of C02 and for
being very hard.

Dale Henderson · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

kev writes:

>
> I used to live in the Poconos in northeast PA and the well water there was
> extremely soft (1-2 dKH) with a pH of 6.4. No limestone to make the water
> hard.
>
>
> kev
>

Actually my father-in-law has a well and his water is extremely
soft. I've never tested it but you can tell by feel.

kev · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

On 09 Apr 2006, the world was enlightened by Dale Henderson's opinion
about...

> "Koi-Lo" writes:
>
>> Moments before spontaneously combusting at
>> was heard opining:
>>
>> > "Koi-Lo" writes:
>> >
>> >> "netDenizen" wrote in message
>> >> $pZ3.614348@news20.bellglobal.com...
>> >>> Finally, others have explained that you should let a glass of
>> >>> tapwater stand for 24 hours before testing pH, because it may change
>> >>> due to outgassing etc.
>> >> =================
>> >> Ours does. It goes from 7.2 to as high as 7.6 after several hours.
>> >
>> >
>> > I got you beat. My comes out of the tap at 7.0. But if I run an
>> > airstone in it for an hour it goes over 8.
>> ===========
>> They run CO2 gas in the lines to help keep scale down. At least
>> that's what I was told.
>
> I have a well. Well water is notorious for being full of C02 and for
> being very hard.
>
>
>

I used to live in the Poconos in northeast PA and the well water there was
extremely soft (1-2 dKH) with a pH of 6.4. No limestone to make the water
hard.

kev

--
Clones are people two.

The Eeeevil Cabal's Nine of Spades.
Wickeddoll's on-demand FP guru.

Animal · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

Thank for the help everybody.I can't believe how fast and helpful everyone
here can be:-).I normal wouldn't try to change the PH but I just lost a 8
year old Raphael cat .So I thought it was the Ph.I haven't added anything
new,no fertilizers,co2 ,fish ,shells ,plants ,ect...
I was doing large water changes but cut them down because I was trying to
raise the nitrates to stop the cyanobactiria like Tom Barr says to do.
I'm going to test the tank in the morning and at night,(when I got the high
reading it was at 9 at night so maybe your right)Then I'll check the tap
water after letting it sit overnight.
Thanks again all.

Mister Gardener · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 34

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:21:20 GMT, Altum
wrote:

>Animal wrote:
>> Thank for the help everybody.I can't believe how fast and helpful everyone
>> here can be:-).I normal wouldn't try to change the PH but I just lost a 8
>> year old Raphael cat .So I thought it was the Ph.I haven't added anything
>> new,no fertilizers,co2 ,fish ,shells ,plants ,ect...
>> I was doing large water changes but cut them down because I was trying to
>> raise the nitrates to stop the cyanobactiria like Tom Barr says to do.
>> I'm going to test the tank in the morning and at night,(when I got the high
>> reading it was at 9 at night so maybe your right)Then I'll check the tap
>> water after letting it sit overnight.
>> Thanks again all.
>
>Is this a planted tank? If so, add KNO3 to raise nitrates. Otherwise
>it is not a low nitrate issue, it is a dirty gravel issue.

In what form do you purchase your KNO3? I know it is available as
stuff like Stump Away and Salt Saltpetre, but have no idea how to
measure/dose it. (Are you reading this, TomBarr?)

-- Mister Gardener

Mister Gardener · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 34

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:42:42 -0400, Mister Gardener
wrote:

>On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:21:20 GMT, Altum
>wrote:
>
>>Animal wrote:
>>> Thank for the help everybody.I can't believe how fast and helpful everyone
>>> here can be:-).I normal wouldn't try to change the PH but I just lost a 8
>>> year old Raphael cat .So I thought it was the Ph.I haven't added anything
>>> new,no fertilizers,co2 ,fish ,shells ,plants ,ect...
>>> I was doing large water changes but cut them down because I was trying to
>>> raise the nitrates to stop the cyanobactiria like Tom Barr says to do.
>>> I'm going to test the tank in the morning and at night,(when I got the high
>>> reading it was at 9 at night so maybe your right)Then I'll check the tap
>>> water after letting it sit overnight.
>>> Thanks again all.
>>
>>Is this a planted tank? If so, add KNO3 to raise nitrates. Otherwise
>>it is not a low nitrate issue, it is a dirty gravel issue.
>
>In what form do you purchase your KNO3? I know it is available as
>stuff like Stump Away and Salt Saltpetre, but have no idea how to
>measure/dose it. (Are you reading this, TomBarr?)
>
>-- Mister Gardener
(delete the first Salt in Saltpeter!)

-- Mister Gardener

Altum · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 42

Animal wrote:
> Thank for the help everybody.I can't believe how fast and helpful everyone
> here can be:-).I normal wouldn't try to change the PH but I just lost a 8
> year old Raphael cat .So I thought it was the Ph.I haven't added anything
> new,no fertilizers,co2 ,fish ,shells ,plants ,ect...
> I was doing large water changes but cut them down because I was trying to
> raise the nitrates to stop the cyanobactiria like Tom Barr says to do.
> I'm going to test the tank in the morning and at night,(when I got the high
> reading it was at 9 at night so maybe your right)Then I'll check the tap
> water after letting it sit overnight.
> Thanks again all.

Is this a planted tank? If so, add KNO3 to raise nitrates. Otherwise
it is not a low nitrate issue, it is a dirty gravel issue.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com

Altum · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 42

Mister Gardener wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:21:20 GMT, Altum
> wrote:
>
>> Animal wrote:
>>> Thank for the help everybody.I can't believe how fast and helpful everyone
>>> here can be:-).I normal wouldn't try to change the PH but I just lost a 8
>>> year old Raphael cat .So I thought it was the Ph.I haven't added anything
>>> new,no fertilizers,co2 ,fish ,shells ,plants ,ect...
>>> I was doing large water changes but cut them down because I was trying to
>>> raise the nitrates to stop the cyanobactiria like Tom Barr says to do.
>>> I'm going to test the tank in the morning and at night,(when I got the high
>>> reading it was at 9 at night so maybe your right)Then I'll check the tap
>>> water after letting it sit overnight.
>>> Thanks again all.
>> Is this a planted tank? If so, add KNO3 to raise nitrates. Otherwise
>> it is not a low nitrate issue, it is a dirty gravel issue.
>
> In what form do you purchase your KNO3? I know it is available as
> stuff like Stump Away and Salt Saltpetre, but have no idea how to
> measure/dose it. (Are you reading this, TomBarr?)
>
> -- Mister Gardener

I buy all my fertilizers from http://gregwatson.com. His Plantex CSM+B
works great and costs far less than most commercial iron and trace
element fertilizers.

As for how to dose, check out the Estimative Index (EI) dosing article
on Tom Barr's site, http://www.barrreport.com. He's got a new EI
"light" article with very simple instructions now. You do have to
register, but the article is part of the free content.

You can also use Chuck Gadd's calculator to help figure things out.
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_dosage_calc.htm
For example, 1/2 tsp of KNO3 will raise nitrate by 9 ppm in a 50 gallon
tank.

--
Put the word aquaria in the subject to reply.
Did you read the FAQ? http://faq.thekrib.com