Improve DIY CO2???

Joey · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

Hello everyone,

I am currently looking for a way to prolong the DIY CO2 production. I
think
there might be a way to improve the reaction a little. As we all know
the
yeast + sugar reaction will form co2 and alcohol following this
formula:

C6H12O6(glucose) --> 2C2H5OH(ethyl alcohol) + 2CO2

We also know that alcohol will breakdown the yeast; hence result in
lower production of CO2 overtime.

But we know that alcohol react with oxygen will result in vinegar and
water as so:

C2H5OH + O2 --> HC2H3O2(vinegar) + H2O

Hence, if we added HCO3- (Baking Soda) at the start of the reaction;
we will
have the following reaction.

HC2H3O2(Vinegar) + HCO3-(Baking Soda) --> H2CO3( carbonic acid) +
C2H3O2-(acetate ion)

The carbonic acid will then reduce to water and carbon dioxide as so:

H2CO3 --> H2O + CO2

All in all, the final result is that we able to breakdown the alcohol
and gain additional CO2 from its reaction with baking soda. Hence, the
main modification is to add baking soda to the solution( which most
people already did). In addition we need to have a way so that oxygen
can enter the system.

One way to do this is to have another another tube connect to the DIY
CO2 system which in turn connect to an air pump.

I would like to hear what everyone think about such a modification.

Joe

Archived from group: rec>aquaria>freshwater>plants

Ghazanfar Ghori · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 30

They airpump will probably overload any CO2 reactor very
quickly. You need something else in there to oxidize the alcohol.

"Joey" wrote in message@posting.google.com...
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am currently looking for a way to prolong the DIY CO2 production. I
> think
> there might be a way to improve the reaction a little. As we all know
> the
> yeast + sugar reaction will form co2 and alcohol following this
> formula:
>
> C6H12O6(glucose) --> 2C2H5OH(ethyl alcohol) + 2CO2
>
> We also know that alcohol will breakdown the yeast; hence result in
> lower production of CO2 overtime.
>
> But we know that alcohol react with oxygen will result in vinegar and
> water as so:
>
> C2H5OH + O2 --> HC2H3O2(vinegar) + H2O
>
>
> Hence, if we added HCO3- (Baking Soda) at the start of the reaction;
> we will
> have the following reaction.
>
>
> HC2H3O2(Vinegar) + HCO3-(Baking Soda) --> H2CO3( carbonic acid) +
> C2H3O2-(acetate ion)
>
> The carbonic acid will then reduce to water and carbon dioxide as so:
>
> H2CO3 --> H2O + CO2
>
>
> All in all, the final result is that we able to breakdown the alcohol
> and gain additional CO2 from its reaction with baking soda. Hence, the
> main modification is to add baking soda to the solution( which most
> people already did). In addition we need to have a way so that oxygen
> can enter the system.
>
> One way to do this is to have another another tube connect to the DIY
> CO2 system which in turn connect to an air pump.
>
> I would like to hear what everyone think about such a modification.
>
>
> Joe

Ross Vandegrift · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 7

In article , Joey wrote:
> I would like to hear what everyone think about such a modification.

Someone once posted who had done lab work on growing yeast cultures.
This individual reported that oxeygenating the yeast mixture increased
production a *lot*. IIRC, the problem was that alcohol production was
increased too much as well.

So you can increase your production in the short term, but you might
need to change your mixture every day.

--
Ross Vandegrift
ross@willow.seitz.com

A Pope has a Water Cannon. It is a Water Cannon.
He fires Holy-Water from it. It is a Holy-Water Cannon.
He Blesses it. It is a Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
He Blesses the Hell out of it. It is a Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
He has it pierced. It is a Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
He makes it official. It is a Canon Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
Batman and Robin arrive. He shoots them.

Joey · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

I made a modification of my DIY yeast+sugar system. I have an air tube
bubbling air from air pump into the close yeast+sugar+water+baking
sodas solution. I am monitoring the system to see how long it will
last. I will post the result of how long it lasts. Currently my
mixture is as follow:

3/4 cups of sugar
6 cups of water
2 tsp of yeast
2 tsp of baking soda
air is bubble into the solution.

I am not worry too much about the CO2 reactor being overload because I
have a control valve which regulate the rate of the bubbles going into
my powerhead.

Joe

Ross Vandegrift wrote in message
>
> So you can increase your production in the short term, but you might
> need to change your mixture every day.
>
>
>
> --
> Ross Vandegrift
> ross@willow.seitz.com
>
> A Pope has a Water Cannon. It is a Water Cannon.
> He fires Holy-Water from it. It is a Holy-Water Cannon.
> He Blesses it. It is a Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
> He Blesses the Hell out of it. It is a Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
> He has it pierced. It is a Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
> He makes it official. It is a Canon Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
> Batman and Robin arrive. He shoots them.

Joey · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 8

I made a modification of my DIY yeast+sugar system. I have an air tube
bubbling air from air pump into the close yeast+sugar+water+baking
sodas solution. I am monitoring the system to see how long it will
last. I will post the result of how long it lasts. Currently my
mixture is as follow:

3/4 cups of sugar
6 cups of water
2 tsp of yeast
2 tsp of baking soda
air is bubble into the solution.

I am not worry too much about the CO2 reactor being overload because I
have a control valve which regulate the rate of the bubbles going into
my powerhead.

Joe

Ross Vandegrift wrote in message
>
> So you can increase your production in the short term, but you might
> need to change your mixture every day.
>
>
>
> --
> Ross Vandegrift
> ross@willow.seitz.com
>
> A Pope has a Water Cannon. It is a Water Cannon.
> He fires Holy-Water from it. It is a Holy-Water Cannon.
> He Blesses it. It is a Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
> He Blesses the Hell out of it. It is a Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
> He has it pierced. It is a Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
> He makes it official. It is a Canon Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water Cannon.
> Batman and Robin arrive. He shoots them.

Brian C. Attwood · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 7

Joey wrote:
> I made a modification of my DIY yeast+sugar system. I have an air tube
> bubbling air from air pump into the close yeast+sugar+water+baking
> sodas solution.

One problem I see with this setup is that the air is going to dilute the
CO2 going to your powerhead. If you are diluting the CO2 going into
your powerhead then most likely less CO2 will dissolve into the tank.
You might want to monitor your CO2 levels in your tank as part of this
experiment as well.

Brian

Brian C. Attwood · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 7

Ghazanfar Ghori wrote:
> Measureing CO2 in the tank will be an inaccurate way of measuring the
> production. Depending on how fast the plants are consuming it, you'll get
> fluctuations etc. Can't use a bubble count to measure it either,
> since, like you mentioned, its diluted with air.
> What probably needs to be done, is to setup two identical bare tanks,
> with big reactors that will dissolve everything. Set one up with identical
> yeast bottles, with one having the air input. And then at fixxed intervals
> check the dissolved CO2 levels.
>

The dilution of the CO2 does more than make a bubble count inaccurate.
If you crank up the air input such that the CO2 is diluted to nearly
ambient air levels, then you won't get much benefit beyond what a
regular airstone hooked up to a pump would provide, no matter how high
your CO2 production rate. That is the extreme case but there will be
some reduction in the efficiency of the reactor as long as there is some
dilution of the CO2. If the bubbled air does provide additional yeast
activity, there is probably an ideal bubble rate where the benefit of
added activity most greatly outweighs the problem of dilution.

Your experimental design would measure the overall efficiency of
"improved" system, because you are measuring only what dissolves into
the water. One way a bubble count could be used would be if a baseline
bubble count of just the air pump with no yeast was established. The
CO2 production would then be anything above the baseline.

Ghazanfar Ghori · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 30

How are you monitoring the CO2 production?

"Joey" wrote in message@posting.google.com...
> I made a modification of my DIY yeast+sugar system. I have an air tube
> bubbling air from air pump into the close yeast+sugar+water+baking
> sodas solution. I am monitoring the system to see how long it will
> last. I will post the result of how long it lasts. Currently my
> mixture is as follow:
>
> 3/4 cups of sugar
> 6 cups of water
> 2 tsp of yeast
> 2 tsp of baking soda
> air is bubble into the solution.
>
> I am not worry too much about the CO2 reactor being overload because I
> have a control valve which regulate the rate of the bubbles going into
> my powerhead.
>
> Joe
>
>
> Ross Vandegrift wrote in message
> >
> > So you can increase your production in the short term, but you might
> > need to change your mixture every day.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ross Vandegrift
> > ross@willow.seitz.com
> >
> > A Pope has a Water Cannon. It is a Water
Cannon.
> > He fires Holy-Water from it. It is a Holy-Water
Cannon.
> > He Blesses it. It is a Holy Holy-Water
Cannon.
> > He Blesses the Hell out of it. It is a Wholly Holy Holy-Water
Cannon.
> > He has it pierced. It is a Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water
Cannon.
> > He makes it official. It is a Canon Holey Wholly Holy Holy-Water
Cannon.
> > Batman and Robin arrive. He shoots
them.

Ghazanfar Ghori · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 30

Measureing CO2 in the tank will be an inaccurate way of measuring the
production. Depending on how fast the plants are consuming it, you'll get
fluctuations etc. Can't use a bubble count to measure it either,
since, like you mentioned, its diluted with air.
What probably needs to be done, is to setup two identical bare tanks,
with big reactors that will dissolve everything. Set one up with identical
yeast bottles, with one having the air input. And then at fixxed intervals
check the dissolved CO2 levels.

"Brian C. Attwood" wrote in message$5b5$1@uni00nw.unity.ncsu.edu...
> Joey wrote:
> > I made a modification of my DIY yeast+sugar system. I have an air tube
> > bubbling air from air pump into the close yeast+sugar+water+baking
> > sodas solution.
>
> One problem I see with this setup is that the air is going to dilute the
> CO2 going to your powerhead. If you are diluting the CO2 going into
> your powerhead then most likely less CO2 will dissolve into the tank.
> You might want to monitor your CO2 levels in your tank as part of this
> experiment as well.
>
> Brian
>