How to tell if something is dead?

Big Habeeb · Joined: 15 Nov 2007 Posts: 28

Got me a golden headed sleeper goby who I haven't seen for more than a
second or two since adding him (about a week ago). Would I see a
spike of something if he was laying dead someplace???

Mitch

Archived from group: rec>aquaria>marine>reefs

George Patterson · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 241

Big Habeeb wrote:
> Got me a golden headed sleeper goby who I haven't seen for more than a
> second or two since adding him (about a week ago). Would I see a
> spike of something if he was laying dead someplace???

The protein skimmer might start working overtime, but you probably won't see
even that if you have a good scavenging crew. With a small fish like that and a
decent size tank like yours, even that is unlikely. That's one of the reasons
all of these suppliers can confidently guarantee their stuff. In a reef tank,
things that die usually just disappear without a trace.

Don't get accusatory about it though. I had a firefish show back up over a month
after I thought he had died. Shellfish are even worse about this; I have had a
conch disappear for months; right now, I may or may not have two in my tank. My
Mandarin disappears for weeks at a time (I caught a glimpse of him tonight).

George Patterson
Worry doesn't improve the future; it just ruins the present.

Big Habeeb · Joined: 15 Nov 2007 Posts: 28

On Nov 28, 9:56 am, KurtG wrote:
> Big Habeeb wrote:
> > Got me a golden headed sleeper goby who I haven't seen for more than a
> > second or two since adding him (about a week ago). Would I see a
> > spike of something if he was laying dead someplace???
>
> A week isn't a long time. I'd give it a month before declaring him dead.
>
> Sadly, you often don't find any sign of the missing fish, so you're just
> left wondering. The clean up crew will take case of him.
>
> I had a maroon clown fish that would disappear for weeks at a time.
> After a while, I just stopped worrying about it.
>
> I also have a feather duster that disappeared within days. 6 months
> later I spotted him on the back side of the tank where I don't clean the
> glass. Not sure why he's there, but I think he found a good spot to
> pick up detritus.
>
> --Kurt

I actually spotted the golden head this morning...I wasn't necessarily
writing him off yet, but I was definitely starting to wonder...to the
point where I was testing my water twice a day to make SURE I was
reading everything right and wasn't missing something obvious (would
have been odd since the cardinal and clown were both happily chugging
along). It looks like he's just found himself a happy place behind
the rocks...but this morning came out and gave me a little show of him
sifting through the substrate...pity he's not a bit more social since
he's really nifty looking...hopefully he'll be out and about a bit
more once he's comfortable in the tank.

I appreciate the advice on how to know if I got a dead thing or
not...I didn't know if it would cause some kind of detectable spike in
anything, since all my tanks in the past have been wide open and as
such, fairly obvious if there was a dead fish laying on the bottom.

Speaking of protein skimming, I have another question about that...but
I'll move it to another thread :p
Mitch

KurtG · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 132

Big Habeeb wrote:
> Got me a golden headed sleeper goby who I haven't seen for more than a
> second or two since adding him (about a week ago). Would I see a
> spike of something if he was laying dead someplace???

A week isn't a long time. I'd give it a month before declaring him dead.

Sadly, you often don't find any sign of the missing fish, so you're just
left wondering. The clean up crew will take case of him.

I had a maroon clown fish that would disappear for weeks at a time.
After a while, I just stopped worrying about it.

I also have a feather duster that disappeared within days. 6 months
later I spotted him on the back side of the tank where I don't clean the
glass. Not sure why he's there, but I think he found a good spot to
pick up detritus.

--Kurt

Gill Passman · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 169

Big Habeeb wrote:

>
>
> I actually spotted the golden head this morning...I wasn't necessarily
> writing him off yet, but I was definitely starting to wonder...to the
> point where I was testing my water twice a day to make SURE I was
> reading everything right and wasn't missing something obvious (would
> have been odd since the cardinal and clown were both happily chugging
> along). It looks like he's just found himself a happy place behind
> the rocks...but this morning came out and gave me a little show of him
> sifting through the substrate...pity he's not a bit more social since
> he's really nifty looking...hopefully he'll be out and about a bit
> more once he's comfortable in the tank.

Well my latest addition is a Regal Tang......"she" hid for a couple of
weeks and sometimes I was convinced that she was a goner......but now
she comes out of hiding when I go to the tank rather than doing the
great disappearing act when I approached the tank - food is the
motivator and the association that tank lid opening and me going up to
it normally means chow.....

It has actually been my experience that newly added fish do go through
not only the physical acclimatization process but also a settling in
process and it is natural instinct to hide....

>
> I appreciate the advice on how to know if I got a dead thing or
> not...I didn't know if it would cause some kind of detectable spike in
> anything, since all my tanks in the past have been wide open and as
> such, fairly obvious if there was a dead fish laying on the bottom.

I know exactly where you are coming from here......in fact I'm currently
missing a lawnmower blenny but have no idea if he is dead or chowing
down somewhere I can't spot him......I fear the worst but there has been
no body or any change in water parameters to indicate any spike....I
think one thing to remember is that we have "clean up" crew in our reef
tanks for a reason (and these aren't just the ones we add but the stuff
in the LR) and they are pretty efficient if you have enough so it would
be unlikely to even notice a spike unlike a FW tank....

Gill

Big Habeeb · Joined: 15 Nov 2007 Posts: 28

On Nov 28, 6:14 pm, Gill Passman wrote:
> Big Habeeb wrote:
>
> > I actually spotted the golden head this morning...I wasn't necessarily
> > writing him off yet, but I was definitely starting to wonder...to the
> > point where I was testing my water twice a day to make SURE I was
> > reading everything right and wasn't missing something obvious (would
> > have been odd since the cardinal and clown were both happily chugging
> > along). It looks like he's just found himself a happy place behind
> > the rocks...but this morning came out and gave me a little show of him
> > sifting through the substrate...pity he's not a bit more social since
> > he's really nifty looking...hopefully he'll be out and about a bit
> > more once he's comfortable in the tank.
>
> Well my latest addition is a Regal Tang......"she" hid for a couple of
> weeks and sometimes I was convinced that she was a goner......but now
> she comes out of hiding when I go to the tank rather than doing the
> great disappearing act when I approached the tank - food is the
> motivator and the association that tank lid opening and me going up to
> it normally means chow.....
>
> It has actually been my experience that newly added fish do go through
> not only the physical acclimatization process but also a settling in
> process and it is natural instinct to hide....
>
>
>
> > I appreciate the advice on how to know if I got a dead thing or
> > not...I didn't know if it would cause some kind of detectable spike in
> > anything, since all my tanks in the past have been wide open and as
> > such, fairly obvious if there was a dead fish laying on the bottom.
>
> I know exactly where you are coming from here......in fact I'm currently
> missing a lawnmower blenny but have no idea if he is dead or chowing
> down somewhere I can't spot him......I fear the worst but there has been
> no body or any change in water parameters to indicate any spike....I
> think one thing to remember is that we have "clean up" crew in our reef
> tanks for a reason (and these aren't just the ones we add but the stuff
> in the LR) and they are pretty efficient if you have enough so it would
> be unlikely to even notice a spike unlike a FW tank....
>
> Gill

Gill,

Absolutely know what you're saying: my clown and cardinal, and even
the cleaner shrimp come tearing out of whatever they're doing like
gangbusters when they 'hear' the tank lid open. The goby, on the
other hand, has shown little interest in the foods being offered,
though I've seen him sifting my substrate like mad, and each morning
do notice that much of the sand has been moved...so I'm not terribly
concerned about him starving...though I may go by the LFS to see if
they have a food alternative for him as well...plus, its time to up
the cleanup crew. Phosphates are still at 0, but the algae growth is
still present, though nowhere NEAR as bad as previously. I guess for
a 72 gallon tank, I need more than 8 snails and 6 hermits. Don't plan
on adding more hermits, since the little guys are almost never out and
about where I can see them, but I am going to be adding another 5 or 6
snails this weekend.

Other recommendations for 'filling out' the cleanup crew? Keeping in
mind, the tank is still very young, only around 3 - 4 months in at
this point.
Mitch

Gill Passman · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 169

Big Habeeb wrote:

>
> Absolutely know what you're saying: my clown and cardinal, and even
> the cleaner shrimp come tearing out of whatever they're doing like
> gangbusters when they 'hear' the tank lid open. The goby, on the
> other hand, has shown little interest in the foods being offered,
> though I've seen him sifting my substrate like mad, and each morning
> do notice that much of the sand has been moved...so I'm not terribly
> concerned about him starving...though I may go by the LFS to see if
> they have a food alternative for him as well...plus, its time to up
> the cleanup crew. Phosphates are still at 0, but the algae growth is
> still present, though nowhere NEAR as bad as previously. I guess for
> a 72 gallon tank, I need more than 8 snails and 6 hermits. Don't plan
> on adding more hermits, since the little guys are almost never out and
> about where I can see them, but I am going to be adding another 5 or 6
> snails this weekend.

All of my fish have gone through the hiding thing.....don't know too
much about gobies (yet) so maybe it is just normal behaviour....anyway
if you are now seeing more of him I would be my guess it is only a
matter of time....

One thing on the phosphates being 0 - mine are usually 0 but I also have
algae in the tank....algae will use up the phosphates making the results
a little bit deceptive......I guess the best situation is no algae and
still zero phosphates - a goal I am working towards as well....

As for clean up crew I recently found someone in the UK who specialises
in clean up guys and have got some interesting creatures from him not
much help to you I know but - Mexican turbos - the size of
golfballs.....banded stars that hide a lot of the time but do sometimes
come out to play (especially if the food is laced with garlic) but do a
great job on the substrate in their immediate area, small conches,
multiple snails of too many varied species to remember and one of my
favourite oddities which is an abalone - now this is a weird creature -
looks like a hairy slug but does an awesome job on the hair
algae....apparently it is a delicacy when eaten but I'm quite fond of
the chap....
>
> Other recommendations for 'filling out' the cleanup crew? Keeping in
> mind, the tank is still very young, only around 3 - 4 months in at
> this point.

Snails (take a look at the Mexican turbos), hermits but only the same
type as you already have although I do understand that Halloween Hermits
might be OK as they like different shaped shells to the blue and red
legged.....I opted out of putting it to the test....Pin cushion urchins
might be a good plan but some will strip coralline or upset corals so
very much a YMMV kind of thing....

As the the 3 -4 month thing your best bet is to do things slowly but if
you are in to critters keep an eye out for the more unusual as they do
sometimes become available....

Gill

> Mitch

August West · Joined: 09 Dec 2007 Posts: 1

On Dec 2, 10:17 am, Gill Passman wrote:
Easy to tell if its dead, the entire aquarium starts to smell like
Gill Passmans douche water.

Hey Gill this can all end, email me and we can work it out! Your ball
game Gill, I love overtime innings myself though.