Black brush algae..excess phosphates?

elliot8 · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

I have been battling BBA for a while now in my 55 gallon freshwater
tank. I know that excess phosphates are one contibuting factor.
Untill recently I was unable to find a test to tell me what my
phosphate levels were.

Well, I finally found a phosphate test and it says that the phosphate
levels in my tank are 2 ppm. I also tested my tap water and the levels
are the same (2 ppm).

My question is, what level of phosphate is considered "excessive" pr
high...does BBA need a certain level in order to thrive?

I have recently purchased some "phosban" and put some into my canister
filter. The next day my phosphate level was at 0.5 ppm.

Any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Archived from group: rec>aquaria>freshwater>plants

elliot8 · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 2

I bought mine at a "petland" store. It is manufactured by Aquarium
Pharmaceuticals. Here is a link to the AP site:
http://aquariumpharm.com/en_us/productCategory.asp?categoryname=TestKits

MEAlston · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 5

wrote in message@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> I have been battling BBA for a while now in my 55 gallon freshwater
> tank. I know that excess phosphates are one contibuting factor.
> Untill recently I was unable to find a test to tell me what my
> phosphate levels were.
>
> Well, I finally found a phosphate test and it says that the phosphate
> levels in my tank are 2 ppm. I also tested my tap water and the levels
> are the same (2 ppm).

Where did you find the phosphate tester? -ED

BarrReport · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 55

Even if the PO4 test is correct, your enmtire assumption about the
cause(not the correlation) of PO4 being the root or even the
contributing gfactor to BBA is flatly wrong. This was shown over a
decade ago both in the USA and in Germany.
We limited the PO4 to less than 0.1ppm, which is about as low as any
decent test kit can go, which was a Hach and a Lamotte test kit and we
used KH2PO4 for standards to check if the test kits where accurately
reading.

We found no corelation between BBa and PO4 levels, if anything, there
was a strong relationship between higher PO4 levels and lower presence
of BBA.

In any event, folks routinely on most popular aquatic plant forums and
boards add KH2PO4 to maintain 2-3ppm of PO4 through the week. They have
no BBA. I've been adding PO4 for at least 15 years. I have no BBA.

Sio if you accept that high PO4 causes algae/BBA, where is my algae?
This hypothesis is wrong, this is a myth and has been said as such.

The information you got that is was caused by high/excess PO4 is very
outdated, 20-30 years or more old and based on __myth__, not any
testing.

If someone says algae is caused by X, I add X to an otherwise healthy
tank, and I do not get algae, it's difficult to sugegst that X causes
algae.

If you want to stop BBA, learn how to use CO2 if you add that.
Low and variable CO2 levels are the only cause for BBA I'm aware off in
CO2 enriched tanks.
In non CO2 tanks, stop doing water changes and add enough to top off
for evaporation.

For the CO2 tanks, add enough to get about 25-30ppm and keep it there
throughout the day peroid.

That's it and you do not need PO4 removers, they will not help.

Regards,

Tom Barr

www.BarrReport.com

Mister Gardener · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 34

On 27 Apr 2006 07:44:37 -0700, BarrReport@gmail.com wrote:

>Even if the PO4 test is correct, your enmtire assumption about the
>cause(not the correlation) of PO4 being the root or even the
>contributing gfactor to BBA is flatly wrong. This was shown over a
>decade ago both in the USA and in Germany.
>We limited the PO4 to less than 0.1ppm, which is about as low as any
>decent test kit can go, which was a Hach and a Lamotte test kit and we
>used KH2PO4 for standards to check if the test kits where accurately
>reading.
>
>We found no corelation between BBa and PO4 levels, if anything, there
>was a strong relationship between higher PO4 levels and lower presence
>of BBA.
>
>In any event, folks routinely on most popular aquatic plant forums and
>boards add KH2PO4 to maintain 2-3ppm of PO4 through the week. They have
>no BBA. I've been adding PO4 for at least 15 years. I have no BBA.
>
>Sio if you accept that high PO4 causes algae/BBA, where is my algae?
>This hypothesis is wrong, this is a myth and has been said as such.
>
>The information you got that is was caused by high/excess PO4 is very
>outdated, 20-30 years or more old and based on __myth__, not any
>testing.
>
>If someone says algae is caused by X, I add X to an otherwise healthy
>tank, and I do not get algae, it's difficult to sugegst that X causes
>algae.
>
>If you want to stop BBA, learn how to use CO2 if you add that.
>Low and variable CO2 levels are the only cause for BBA I'm aware off in
>CO2 enriched tanks.
>In non CO2 tanks, stop doing water changes and add enough to top off
>for evaporation.

By topping off only in my non CO2 tanks, what am I doing . . . what's
happening to my water . . . could you expand on this a little for me?

-- Mister Gardener
-- Pull the WEED to email me

Mister Gardener · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 34

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:28:51 +0100, Gill Passman
wrote:

>Mister Gardener wrote:
>> On 27 Apr 2006 07:44:37 -0700, BarrReport@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Even if the PO4 test is correct, your enmtire assumption about the
>>>cause(not the correlation) of PO4 being the root or even the
>>>contributing gfactor to BBA is flatly wrong. This was shown over a
>>>decade ago both in the USA and in Germany.
>>>We limited the PO4 to less than 0.1ppm, which is about as low as any
>>>decent test kit can go, which was a Hach and a Lamotte test kit and we
>>>used KH2PO4 for standards to check if the test kits where accurately
>>>reading.
>>>
>>>We found no corelation between BBa and PO4 levels, if anything, there
>>>was a strong relationship between higher PO4 levels and lower presence
>>>of BBA.
>>>
>>>In any event, folks routinely on most popular aquatic plant forums and
>>>boards add KH2PO4 to maintain 2-3ppm of PO4 through the week. They have
>>>no BBA. I've been adding PO4 for at least 15 years. I have no BBA.
>>>
>>>Sio if you accept that high PO4 causes algae/BBA, where is my algae?
>>>This hypothesis is wrong, this is a myth and has been said as such.
>>>
>>>The information you got that is was caused by high/excess PO4 is very
>>>outdated, 20-30 years or more old and based on __myth__, not any
>>>testing.
>>>
>>>If someone says algae is caused by X, I add X to an otherwise healthy
>>>tank, and I do not get algae, it's difficult to sugegst that X causes
>>>algae.
>>>
>>>If you want to stop BBA, learn how to use CO2 if you add that.
>>>Low and variable CO2 levels are the only cause for BBA I'm aware off in
>>>CO2 enriched tanks.
>>>In non CO2 tanks, stop doing water changes and add enough to top off
>>>for evaporation.
>>
>>
>> By topping off only in my non CO2 tanks, what am I doing . . . what's
>> happening to my water . . . could you expand on this a little for me?
>>
>>
>> -- Mister Gardener
>> -- Pull the WEED to email me
>
>This is a me too.....I have BBA in my Malawi tank - it is the only one
>of my tanks that suffers this way and is the only one that is sparsely
>planted....
>
>Can you please expand on this?
>
>Thanks
>Gill
If the poor guy expands much more he's either going to explode or
float away.

-- Mister Gardener
-- Pull the WEED to email me

Koi-Lo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 199

Moments before taking that leap of faith into the pond at
was heard opining:

> If the poor guy expands much more he's either going to explode or
> float away.
=======================
Like that roommate you had at college........ sorry, couldn't help
myself........
--
Koi-Lo....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~ } ~~~ } ~~~ }

Gill Passman · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 139

Mister Gardener wrote:
> On 27 Apr 2006 07:44:37 -0700, BarrReport@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>>Even if the PO4 test is correct, your enmtire assumption about the
>>cause(not the correlation) of PO4 being the root or even the
>>contributing gfactor to BBA is flatly wrong. This was shown over a
>>decade ago both in the USA and in Germany.
>>We limited the PO4 to less than 0.1ppm, which is about as low as any
>>decent test kit can go, which was a Hach and a Lamotte test kit and we
>>used KH2PO4 for standards to check if the test kits where accurately
>>reading.
>>
>>We found no corelation between BBa and PO4 levels, if anything, there
>>was a strong relationship between higher PO4 levels and lower presence
>>of BBA.
>>
>>In any event, folks routinely on most popular aquatic plant forums and
>>boards add KH2PO4 to maintain 2-3ppm of PO4 through the week. They have
>>no BBA. I've been adding PO4 for at least 15 years. I have no BBA.
>>
>>Sio if you accept that high PO4 causes algae/BBA, where is my algae?
>>This hypothesis is wrong, this is a myth and has been said as such.
>>
>>The information you got that is was caused by high/excess PO4 is very
>>outdated, 20-30 years or more old and based on __myth__, not any
>>testing.
>>
>>If someone says algae is caused by X, I add X to an otherwise healthy
>>tank, and I do not get algae, it's difficult to sugegst that X causes
>>algae.
>>
>>If you want to stop BBA, learn how to use CO2 if you add that.
>>Low and variable CO2 levels are the only cause for BBA I'm aware off in
>>CO2 enriched tanks.
>>In non CO2 tanks, stop doing water changes and add enough to top off
>>for evaporation.
>
>
> By topping off only in my non CO2 tanks, what am I doing . . . what's
> happening to my water . . . could you expand on this a little for me?
>
>
> -- Mister Gardener
> -- Pull the WEED to email me

This is a me too.....I have BBA in my Malawi tank - it is the only one
of my tanks that suffers this way and is the only one that is sparsely
planted....

Can you please expand on this?

Thanks
Gill

Koi-Lo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 3

*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.

"Mark Baldwin" wrote in message @giganews.com...
>
> The only way I know of destroying it is to use Flourish Excel, you need to
> perform the initial dose and then everyday thereafter, do a 2x or 3x dose
> for 2 weeks. When you put the stuff in the tank, squirt it directly onto
> the algae - it will die within a couple of days going red and then white.

Mark, that didn't work in my tanks. All the Excel did was stop it from
spreading. It never turned white. It took several algae eaters to clean up
the tanks plus the Excel and micronutrients. Now however, I have a black
stringy, wiry algae none of them will eat. I'm going through Excel like a
drunk goes through a 6-pack.

> Also up your CO2 to at least 30ppm - apparently this stops it growing but
> I'm not convinced about this tbh.
>
> Of course make sure you tank are in balance, all the proper plant
> nutrients, low phosphate (0.1ppm), low nitrate (>5ppm) and get your plants
> growing. BBA will gradually die off if your plants are growing well and
> everything is in balance.

--
Koi-Lo....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
Aquarium FAQ are at: http://faq.thekrib.com/
~~~~ } ~~~ } ~~~~ }

Mark Baldwin · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 5

Actually BBA appeared in my tank once my pH sensor went faulty and lowered
my pH to 6.2 - that was some 80+ppm of CO2! It quickly took over.

The only way I know of destroying it is to use Flourish Excel, you need to
perform the initial dose and then everyday thereafter, do a 2x or 3x dose
for 2 weeks. When you put the stuff in the tank, squirt it directly onto the
algae - it will die within a couple of days going red and then white.

Also up your CO2 to at least 30ppm - apparently this stops it growing but
I'm not convinced about this tbh.

Of course make sure you tank are in balance, all the proper plant nutrients,
low phosphate (0.1ppm), low nitrate (>5ppm) and get your plants growing. BBA
will gradually die off if your plants are growing well and everything is in
balance.

--
Best regards
Mark

wrote in message @g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Even if the PO4 test is correct, your enmtire assumption about the
> cause(not the correlation) of PO4 being the root or even the
> contributing gfactor to BBA is flatly wrong. This was shown over a
> decade ago both in the USA and in Germany.
> We limited the PO4 to less than 0.1ppm, which is about as low as any
> decent test kit can go, which was a Hach and a Lamotte test kit and we
> used KH2PO4 for standards to check if the test kits where accurately
> reading.
>
> We found no corelation between BBa and PO4 levels, if anything, there
> was a strong relationship between higher PO4 levels and lower presence
> of BBA.
>
> In any event, folks routinely on most popular aquatic plant forums and
> boards add KH2PO4 to maintain 2-3ppm of PO4 through the week. They have
> no BBA. I've been adding PO4 for at least 15 years. I have no BBA.
>
> Sio if you accept that high PO4 causes algae/BBA, where is my algae?
> This hypothesis is wrong, this is a myth and has been said as such.
>
> The information you got that is was caused by high/excess PO4 is very
> outdated, 20-30 years or more old and based on __myth__, not any
> testing.
>
> If someone says algae is caused by X, I add X to an otherwise healthy
> tank, and I do not get algae, it's difficult to sugegst that X causes
> algae.
>
> If you want to stop BBA, learn how to use CO2 if you add that.
> Low and variable CO2 levels are the only cause for BBA I'm aware off in
> CO2 enriched tanks.
> In non CO2 tanks, stop doing water changes and add enough to top off
> for evaporation.
>
> For the CO2 tanks, add enough to get about 25-30ppm and keep it there
> throughout the day peroid.
>
> That's it and you do not need PO4 removers, they will not help.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom Barr
>
> www.BarrReport.com
>

dc · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 37

"Koi-Lo" wrote in @news.henrynet.se:

> Mark, that didn't work in my tanks. All the Excel did was stop it
> from spreading. It never turned white. It took several algae eaters
> to clean up the tanks plus the Excel and micronutrients. Now however,
> I have a black stringy, wiry algae none of them will eat. I'm going
> through Excel like a drunk goes through a 6-pack.

Fighting algae is about finding the balance.

Not enough light for healthy plants = algae.

Too much light and not enough CO2 for healthy plants = algae.

Too much CO2 and not enough light = dead fish and algae.

Wrong temperature = algae.

Improper any of the aforementioned for plants to utilize the available
macro nutrients = algae.

Excel, which is just an organic carbon compound just helps you find a
balance in a particular area where your tank may have been lacking. You
won't have the same degree of success with it in all tanks.

Dick · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 133

On Wed, 31 May 2006 12:14:21 -0500, "Koi-Lo"
wrote:

>*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
>
>"Mark Baldwin" wrote in message
>@giganews.com...
>>
>> The only way I know of destroying it is to use Flourish Excel, you need to
>> perform the initial dose and then everyday thereafter, do a 2x or 3x dose
>> for 2 weeks. When you put the stuff in the tank, squirt it directly onto
>> the algae - it will die within a couple of days going red and then white.
>
>Mark, that didn't work in my tanks. All the Excel did was stop it from
>spreading. It never turned white. It took several algae eaters to clean up
>the tanks plus the Excel and micronutrients. Now however, I have a black
>stringy, wiry algae none of them will eat. I'm going through Excel like a
>drunk goes through a 6-pack.
>
>> Also up your CO2 to at least 30ppm - apparently this stops it growing but
>> I'm not convinced about this tbh.
>>
>> Of course make sure you tank are in balance, all the proper plant
>> nutrients, low phosphate (0.1ppm), low nitrate (>5ppm) and get your plants
>> growing. BBA will gradually die off if your plants are growing well and
>> everything is in balance.

I had black hair algae in my 75 gallon tank soon after I set it up. I
noticed platies would eat the new strings, but not touch the longer
ones. I pulled out all plants with the hair, gravel with hair,
cleaned rocks and ornaments, bought more live bearers and Siamese
Algae Eaters, and hoped. I did something right. Over 3 years later
and now I have 5 tanks of various sizes and no Black Hair Algae.

dick

Koi-Lo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 10

"dc" wrote in message @216.196.97.131...
> "Koi-Lo" wrote in @news.henrynet.se:
>
>> Mark, that didn't work in my tanks. All the Excel did was stop it
>> from spreading. It never turned white. It took several algae eaters
>> to clean up the tanks plus the Excel and micronutrients. Now however,
>> I have a black stringy, wiry algae none of them will eat. I'm going
>> through Excel like a drunk goes through a 6-pack.
==============================
> Fighting algae is about finding the balance.
>
> Not enough light for healthy plants = algae.
>
> Too much light and not enough CO2 for healthy plants = algae.
>
> Too much CO2 and not enough light = dead fish and algae.
>
> Wrong temperature = algae.
>
> Improper any of the aforementioned for plants to utilize the available
> macro nutrients = algae.
>
> Excel, which is just an organic carbon compound just helps you find a
> balance in a particular area where your tank may have been lacking. You
> won't have the same degree of success with it in all tanks.
========================
After all these years this is the first time I got really serious about
growing plants in these tanks. I mean other than vals and hornwart and an
anubia or two. The job seems complicated and expensive - a hobby in an of
itself.
--
Koi-Lo....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ } ~~~ } ~~~~ }

Koi-Lo · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 10

"Dick" wrote in message @4ax.com...
>
> I had black hair algae in my 75 gallon tank soon after I set it up. I
> noticed platies would eat the new strings, but not touch the longer
> ones.

My Mickey Mouse platys aren't big algae eaters. Their tank isn't a problem
with the black hair stuff anyway since it's so full of Java moss, wisteria,
duckweed and other plants. In fact they're running out of swimming space.
The worst of the black hair is in the two 55g fancy GF tanks.

I pulled out all plants with the hair,

Geeze,... I'd have nothing left. It's spreading over all the plants,
especially along the edges. Sad

gravel with hair,
> cleaned rocks and ornaments, bought more live bearers and Siamese
> Algae Eaters, and hoped.

Did the SAE actually eat the stuff?

I did something right. Over 3 years later
> and now I have 5 tanks of various sizes and no Black Hair Algae.
>
> dick
--
Koi-Lo....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ } ~~~ } ~~~~ }

Dick · Joined: 16 Aug 2007 Posts: 133

On Sat, 3 Jun 2006 15:08:55 -0500, "Koi-Lo" wrote:

>
>"dc" wrote in message
>@216.196.97.131...
>> "Koi-Lo" wrote in @news.henrynet.se:
>>
>>> Mark, that didn't work in my tanks. All the Excel did was stop it
>>> from spreading. It never turned white. It took several algae eaters
>>> to clean up the tanks plus the Excel and micronutrients. Now however,
>>> I have a black stringy, wiry algae none of them will eat. I'm going
>>> through Excel like a drunk goes through a 6-pack.
>==============================
>> Fighting algae is about finding the balance.
>>
>> Not enough light for healthy plants = algae.
>>
>> Too much light and not enough CO2 for healthy plants = algae.
>>
>> Too much CO2 and not enough light = dead fish and algae.
>>
>> Wrong temperature = algae.
>>
>> Improper any of the aforementioned for plants to utilize the available
>> macro nutrients = algae.
>>
>> Excel, which is just an organic carbon compound just helps you find a
>> balance in a particular area where your tank may have been lacking. You
>> won't have the same degree of success with it in all tanks.
>========================
>After all these years this is the first time I got really serious about
>growing plants in these tanks. I mean other than vals and hornwart and an
>anubia or two. The job seems complicated and expensive - a hobby in an of
>itself.

I think it depends how fancy you want to be. My first plants died as
they were not low light. Next I ordered a variety pack for "low
light". Some died, but those that survived have done well for over 3
years and I have used starters to populate my other tanks.

I don't use fertilizer nor CO2 nor special sub layers. I have 3
different types of gravels, but the plants do well in all 3.

My only problem is pruning the excess growth. I hate throwing out
perfectly healthy plants.

I think that those that talk about ferilizers, substrates and CO2 want
to match the tank condition to the plants they want to have. I work
it the other way and have plants that are happy with the tank
conditions.

My tanks are very attractive to my eyes and the fish are happy to have
resting areas. They run into the heavy growth to rest and I have no
need for caves. I do have 3 ornaments that a few of the fish use, but
the majority are content with their leafy glades.

dick